No 75% 25% every time it is transferred and the law requires it to be transferred from a grower to a packager to a seller.
Marijuana and Cannabis News
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| NORML Foundation/Russ Belville |
| Alan St. Pierre, NORML: "We fully recognize that the per se DUI provisions in I-502 are arbitrary, unnecessary, and unscientific, and we argued strongly with the sponsors for provisions that would require proof of actual impairment" |
"NORML supports (and publicly endorses when requested by the principal organizers) marijuana legalization, regulation, and medical use initiatives that qualify for the state ballot, so long as they move us closer to full legalization, even if they contain provisions we do not believe should be included in a perfect proposal," St. Pierre said.
"We fully recognize the per se DUI marijuana provisions in I-502 are arbitrary, unnecessary, and unscientific, and we argued strongly with the sponsors for provisions that would require proof of actual impairment to be shown before one could be charged with a traffic safety offense," St. Pierre said, echoing the concerns of Patients Against I-502.
"But we failed to persuade the sponsors of I-502," St. Pierre admitted, "and now we must decide whether to support the initiative despite these provisions. "We believe the overall impact of this proposal, if approved by voters this fall and enacted, will be overwhelmingly helpful to the vast majority of cannabis users in the state, and will eliminate tens of thousands of cannabis arrests each year.
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"Thus, NORML's Board of Directors voted unanimously (including the two members from WA) to endorse the initiative, while maintaining our opposition to per se DUID provisions in principle," St. Pierre said.
St. Pierre also conceded that I-502 was further flawed in that it leaves in place prohibitions on the home cultivation of marijuana by non-patients.
"Additionally, at NORML we also support the right of consumers to grow their own marijuana, and there is no such legal protection in the WA initiative," St. Pierre said. "However, qualified patients already protected under existing law will be able to continue to grow cannabis, as I-502 does not alter existing medical cannabis laws."
The NORML executive director also admitted that the reason for the failure to include home cultivation in the initiative was because of public opinion polling by I-502's sponsors.
"The sponsors found through their polling that the inclusion of the right to cultivate marijuana for personal adult use would reduce their level of public support below that needed for approval," St. Pierre said. "Again, while we continue to support personal cultivation, we believe the initiative still deserves our support, despite this calculated omission by I-502's sponsors."
"We would urge those who support marijuana legalization, but opposed specific provisions of I-502, to nonetheless support this initiative because of the importance of 1) having one state actually approve legalization and confront the federal government on this issue, and 2) stopping thousand of expensive and damaging arrests, prosecutions and incarcerations annually in WA for cannabis-related offenses, notably for simple possession.
St. Pierre didn't mention it, but I-502 only legalizes recreational possession of an ounce; even if it passes, you could still be charged with a felony under Washington state law for more than 1.5 ounces.
Also left unmentioned by the NORML executive director was the fact that I-502 would institute "zero tolerance" for drivers under 21; thus if they show up for any amount of THC in their bloodstreams, they'll be considered per se impaired, and guilty of DUI.
"For those who feel they cannot support the current initiative, because it is not perfect, we would hope they would step aside and take no public position, in order not to undermine what is an historic opportunity to end marijuana prohibition, by popular vote, under state law."
However you feel about that statement, it's impossible to wonder just how different this entire debate could be if those who wrote I-502 would have had the foresight to imagine what an incredibly divided community would result from inclusion of the DUI provision and the no home cultivation provision.
Will that calculated move push I-502 over the top, or doom it to an identical fate of California's Proposition 19? We won't know for sure until November.
More links from around the web!
328 comments
greenlv
No comment on Russ Belville's expose of the anti-crowd? It figures. He pulled the curtain down to reveal your ugly motivation for wanting to perpetuate the persecution of millions of good Americans.
Idiot asshole, really pine that last word don't you? Does it help salve your puny self image, Zealot?501 is suckers bait and bad law."arbitrary, unnecessary, unscientific" law would arm State Power with tools to take our Blood on a Cops suspission or predujuce? All 502 will do is create a brand new revenue stream of DUI's and grant government further control over our liberties. Shades of the Patriot Act. No provision for home growing? One State grown and sold ounce? Nazi Blood collecting Cops? This is Not Legalization!!
Ooh. -- Squeal like the stuck pigs you are! 8^)
How you folks hate the coming re-legalization and end of your gravy-train. So much you are willing to condemn your precious "customers" to years more of state-sponsored persecution. Such sickness.
Bullied- Like you attempt to get the Last Word, or you idiot off hand dismiss of people concerns, The self-righteous asinine spout of zealot arrogance you call a mouth. The vilification of anyone who disagrees. Sit in your little city apartment with your narrow and neutered views calling yourself a real reformer. 502 is bad law and will not pass. You can have a good cry then punk.
To greenlv below:
Bullied? 8^) Now how would I do that? No. It's just the strength of my argument and the weakness of yours you are feeling. You insist on ignoring the incredible freedom ANY re-legalization will cause at this time. The country is ripe for ending the horrific persecution of millions of innocent Americans. All it will take is ONE state crossing the line. But you must ignore that elephant in the living room to keep raking in black-market prices you have become addicted to. -- Simply shameful.
Hey, jontomas zealot punk, not everyone is going to bullied into voting for Corrupt laws or giving the last word to 'veteran reformers' who capitalize a bloated self image from being such a righteous crusader. 502 is bad law and will not pass.
Who are you talking to or about?All 502 will do is create a brand new revenue stream of DUI's and grant government further control over our liberties. Shades of the Patriot Act. No provision for home growing? One State grown and sold ounce? Nazi Blood collecting Cops? This is Not Legalization!!
You mean the "expose" written by Dominic Holden - who is admittedly biased on the topic - which condtradicts not only the viewpoint of Patients Against NAW, but NORML and other organizations which have fought per se DUIC for years.
Keep in mind when "debunking" the claims of I-502 opponents, you are also helping support and pass a per se DUIC law in Colorado. Unfortunately, the folks in Colorado don't have the luxury of choosing to accept per se DUIC in exchange for a legal ounce. In Colorado, the per se DUIC is a stand alone provision.
You are not doing ANYONE in this movement any favors, recreational or medical user, by promoting Dominic and Russ' reefer madness about DUI. Colorado won't be the only state considering this law in the future and we have ZERO ground to stand on if we knowingly accept this "compromise" with the cops.
jontomas doesn't care about the Truth or the Movement or Patients rights or Civil Rights. He loves state power, his own pathetic self-image as 'Veteran Reformer'. He loves Big Brother and wants to give his blood and money to the Government. 502 is Bad law and will not Pass!
Shame on you, yourself, you self-righeous ass.Actually series of points have been made by myself and others that you dismiss because you are a short sighted compliant pussy ready to roll over and give a cop your blood cause he smell grass.Pin your self-image on you hopes in Colorado, I live in Washington and we aint having it.502 is bad law, and will not pass, deal with it.
...of course the above is self appointed veteran reformer jontomas, the Sister Mary Teresa of the Marijuana Movement does care if you get a DUI for a joint you smoke days ago.
The only people not supporting this bill are either from selfishness or pure ignorance. If you get pulled over now reeking of weed and eyes red your probably going to get a DUI today Med patient or not. If you don't give them a reason to pull you over they can't, so unless your making money off patients or black market WHAT LOGICAL REASON IS THERE NOT TO PASS THIS BILL. If it doesn't passes anti cannabis people are gonna be like look it came up and people don't want marijuana legal, they're not gonna be like oh it didn't pass b/c people don't wanna get DUIs.
What logical reason is there not to pass this bill? The fact that NORML agrees with opponents that I-502's DUI clause is "arbitrary, unnecessary and unscientific." The fact that UNIMPAIRED drivers will be convicted of DUI isn't enough for you?
No. Those minor, largely unfounded concerns are overwhelmed by the fact that passing I-502 will be the spark the lights all the states to end the monstrously destructive, counter-productive, freedom-strangling fraud of marijuana prohibition.
That is the goal of marijuana reform, which is supposedly what we are all here about.
To greenlv below:
You aren't saying anything new. Just the same old lame attempts to justify continuing the persecution of millions of innocent Americans. Shame on you.
NORML's Russ Belville pins this sick, greedy position down:
Telling everybody what they are supposed to be 'about'? Thank again know it all Zealot.
Not matter what you and the French guy think many of us Washington State voters will not conform to tyranny. We don't all live in tiny city apartments and take the bus like you.
This admittedly "arbitrary, unnecessary, unscientific" law would arm State Power with tools to take our Blood on a Cops suspission or predujuce? All 502 will do is create a brand new revenue stream of DUI's and grant government further control over our liberties. Shades of the Patriot Act. No provision for home growing? One State grown and sold ounce? Nazi Blood collecting Cops? This is Not Legalization!!
Great news! Colorado Marijuana-legalization initiative qualifies for the ballot!
http://www.denverpost.com/brea...
>>>"An initiative to legalize limited possession of marijuana in Colorado for adults has become the first measure to qualify for the November ballot.
The Colorado Secretary of State's office announced this afternoon that the campaign turned in enough extra signatures to make the ballot. Initiative proponents came up just short of the 86,105 needed signatures in their first attempt at submitting signatures. Given the chance to get more, proponents handed in more than 14,000 extra, of which nearly 7,000 were found valid, putting the initiative over the line.
The initiative will be Amendment 64 on the ballot.
The measure would legalize possession of up to an ounce of marijuana for people 21 years and older. It would also allow for people to grow up to six marijuana plants in their home. Special stores would be allowed to sell marijuana, but communities would also have the option of banning those businesses.
Mason Tvert, one of the measure's chief proponents, said the campaign would use the next eight months to build a "broad base of support" across the state.
"Coloradans have a chance to make history this November, and we believe they are ready to do just that," Tvert said in a statement."
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This is it! Two states achieving the ballot proves this is not an anomaly! California and other states will join. The wall is crumbling!
Why isn't there "arbitrary, unnecessary and unscientific" DUI language in CO's bill? Why not CA's RMLW Initiative? Why is I-502 the ONLY initiative with an unethical DUI proposal attached?
They are all different. That's life. The concessions were made based on polling of what the public would accept.
To patients against below:
Polling is an effective tool in fashioning legislation that can pass. Success is a good thing, right? Noble failure isn't helpful.
Reform leaders, like St. Pierre, are acknowledging these driving restrictions are unreasonable. But they will likely not be enforced, and they will certainly be corrected after marijuana is re-legalized. Then that adjustment won't have to contend with marijuana's "criminality" and stigma.
To Donkey below
The billboard space is out back.
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To greenlv below:
You have something against life? Did you somehow expect different states to come up with exactly the same re-legalization initiatives?
Curb the tongue, please.
Polling? Please! Polling is not an excuse for wrongfully arresting and convicting UNIMPAIRED drivers of DUI! All the science supports this fact. NORML acknowledges this fact. Even NAW admits that opponents concerns are "understandable." And POLLING is the excuse for KNOWINGLY supporting a DUI law that will send SOBER cannabis users to jail? OUTRAGEOUS!
All the dispensaries being shut down in CA would still be open if 19 had passed. Feds would be overwhelmed shutting down the recreational shops that would open. The feds would have a PR nightmare busting medical befor recreational. Feds say marijuana has no medical value, can they also say it has no recreational value? I have been smoking since the 60's and will till the day I die. F--k the feds.
Since you are clearly not a fan of the FEDS - you might like to know that I-502 requires growers to provide their fingerprints to the FBI before they can even APPLY to grow cannabis, let alone sell it in state-regulated stores.
And your point is? Licensed daycare providers and all their family members have to provide fingerprints for the FBI. So what. You planning on doing something like robbing a bank? WTF.
Our point is that cannabis users should be wary of any "legalization" effort which asks us to give our fingerprints to the very government agency that has persecuted us for decades.
To those of you who insist that we should just pass an initiative that has fatal flaws in it, just so we can "fix it later", should look at the medical cannabis laws here in Washington. We've had 14 years to "fix" this law and it's gotten nothing but more restrictive (thanks in large part to Alison Holcolm...the author of 502). Every year some idiot tries to sell us on the idea that if we just give up our rights and register like criminals, the cops MAY just leave us alone. This year patients finally expressed a resounding "NO!" to that kind of flawed reasoning. From now on, we'll write our OWN legislation....thank you very much!
No one is arguing for "perfection". I don't think that the real opposition is actually coming from "greedy dispensary or clinic owners". I think that's nothing but a ruse by the pro 502 forces who don't want to admit that logical cannabis users are opposing the initiative based on the bad provisions in the legislation.
The problem is that the same people are still writing bad legislation. They keep trying to convince us that these unacceptable components in the legislation are required in order to get enough votes to pass this bad legislation.
Am I the only one that finds this to be a simply ridiculous argument? They argue that we have to criminalize patients with a heinous and unscientific DUID component or there won't be enough votes from the idiot segment of voters? Call me stupid, but I'd suggest that educating those stupid voters might be a more logical and humane way to solve the problem rather than simply accepting their ignorance and giving them what the polls say they want, no matter how terrible the consequences may be for tens of thousands of patients.
What we want to see is legislation that doesn't further criminalize us simply so we can hoist the banner and say we have "legalization". There are those, myself included, who will not support legalization "at any cost". There are many of us who have serious issues with a number of the components of the initiative...not JUST the DUID component. We don't have to settle for bad legislation. We did that with medical cannabis and we have yet to fix THAT law after 14 long years of trying. Things have only gotten worse for patients. Bad legalization law would only be more difficult to repair later. Don't vote for any law knowing how flawed it is and think that you can just fix it later. That sounds so easy, but it's not reality, and you'll be stuck with that bad legislation.
I don't think I-502 will pass in November. It won't be the end of the world. I'm sure that someone else will come along with better legislation that both cannabis users and the voters can both agree on. That is apparently not the case with I-502.
You aren't the only one to see through the poisonous fool's bargain proposed by this repugnant initiative.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
Benjamin Franklin is turning over in his grave with people trying to use his words to perpetuate the persecution of millions of innocent Americans who prefer near harmless marijuana over addictive, very harmful alcohol.
Nonsense. The reason medical marijuana law is inadequate and constantly under attack ( in EVERY state) is because it is intrinsically an incomplete solution. The ONLY thing that will free medical marijuana patients is to end the counter-productive fraud of marijuana prohibition. This has been proven over and over.
Wait for a better initiative? Wow. How easily you blow off FOUR YEARS of suffering and persecution of millions of innocent Americans! - Just for the POSSIBILITY of a "better" initiative. As we are seeing in California, that's much harder than some would think.
No. All signs point to NOW being the time to end this evil witch-hunt once and for all.
Again. No initiative carves marijuana policy in stone. We will continue to refine and improve it until it reaches its optimum form - just like we did with alcohol after ending ITS prohibition.
As St. Pierre explains well, passing I-502 moves us way down the road and THROUGH the door of freedom for marjiuana consumers.
This effort by a few suspiciously motivated people to roadblock justice is sickening.
A few? Suspiciously motivated?? How exactly do you purport to know the MOTIVATIONS of the HUNDREDS of people who publicly oppose I-502?
It's as cut and dry as we've repeatedly said it is: We can't support an effort that will successfully criminalize unimpaired drivers. Nothing more, nothing less.
If NAW had addressed concerns from the get go, those in the cannabis community would not have organized an opposition campaign and would not have been divided into two warring factions. Up until the introduction of I-502, every activist in WA was working for legalization and most of us continue to do so. I-502 is the ONLY initiative of its kind which we oppose. We support every other legalization effort on the table right now and will continue to do so in the future.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
**** Vote NO on I-502 !! ****
BAD LAW = BAD RESULTS !!
Legalize Marijuana Like Oregano !!
"Not one fucking dollar of tax on marijuana to the government" -- Jack Herer
To donkeyhotay below:
All re-legalization initiatives ARE good law from this side of Liberation Day. They all move us closer. The minor flaws will be quickly corrected after marijuana loses its "criminality" and stigma.
Get out of the way of reform.
jon "benedict arnold" tomas spewed this absurd propaganda turd -- "ALL marijuana re-legalization initiatives are good law"
You = FAIL !!
Try again, traitor.
And Benjamin Franklin would certainly agree there is NO liberty as long as the fraudulent marijuana prohibition exists.
ALL marijuana re-legalization initiatives are good law.
Of course, vote YES on I-502!
From where I sit in the peanut gallery in Asia,and being surrounded by countries with the DEATH PENALTY for SMALL amounts of cannabis....this bill looks like HEAVEN. All the people who think this bill is so flawed HAVE GORGEOUS BUDS/dabs DAILY in-house, and have very little chance of jail time.
If,the measure passes the world will see the place that can change the prohibition voted to LEGALIZE. The details are superfluous,and the execution of hundreds on death row may be averted. Asian's/African's etc., have zero ability to alter CIA-Mafia fiat laws. Some of this is hubris on the parts of sponsors monied interests behind I-502,but also,"sour grapes" from hardcore activists who flame this schism.
It's obvious that nothing was learned in Wah from Prop-19 fiasco,yet yesterday the three specific initiatives in Kali sat down and COMPROMISED. Oregon had a similar meeting,so we are learning as a movement. I'm sorry to being thwarted from helping gain petition sigs for Sen Wah 2011,and playing a Chris Conrad role in the Great North-West.
Please consider the global perspective before going off about a half-measure which cracks the egg of proscriptive genocide.
There are many freedoms in this country that look like Heaven to the rest of the world.It is exactly that reason, the preservation on our American liberty that we will not relent to more State Power or participate in corrupt "arbitrary unnecessary and unscientific laws". Perhaps you like to have a handgun as well, you may not. I have many.
You speak for a misguided very few. The vast majority of marijuana consumers in the U.S. are praying that Washington passes I-502, and it likely will.
Good thing that your mythical "vast majority" don't vote in Washington.
Why are you so willing to throw the pot users of Washington under the bus for your own potential future advantage?
To greenlv below:
Marijuana consumers, and citizens concerned about justice, are not signficantly different in Washington than in any other state.
Polls show public support for ending the fraudulent marijuana prohibition has now passed 50 percent, nationwide. It's around 60 percent in the Western states.
When fully informed, citizens of ALL states will, indeed, vote for ANY re-legalization initiative.
Don't live in Washington do you?I live in Washington and can tell you there is no consensus at all. Look at these posts! Or the opinion of Elliot, the guy who hosts it!This admittedly "arbitrary, unnecessary, unscientific" law would arm State Power with tools to take our Blood on a Cops suspission or predujuce? All 502 will do is create a brand new revenue stream of DUI's and grant government further control over our liberties. No provision for home growing? One State grown and sold ounce? Nazi Blood collecting Cops? This is Not Legalization!! You keep right on praying, Pal.502 is a poorly written law and will not pass.
jontomas says "...their cases will be quickly tossed out of court when the evidence reveals there was no true impairment."
That's the fundamental flaw of I-502. Officers will not have to PROVE impairment because the law is no longer based on impairment. Instead, the law becomes driving while exceeding the limits prescribed in I-502, even if one is not impaired in the least. Officers will not be required to introduce evidence that you were impaired, only that your blood levels were above a certain limit and that you were also behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.
With the transparent omission of rebuttable presumption added on top of that, it means Washington citizens will most assuredly be arrested and convicted of DUI when they are, in fact, SOBER.
