• I wrote Steve DeAngelo of Harborside an email asking him why he said on "Weed Wars" that it was ok to use Marijuana for Medical but not for recreational and I am still waiting to hear back. I won't hold my breath. I am now thinking of calling the place to talk to someone there if they can answer or ask him that question. 

• That they would get back to me when they got back from Aspen.lol

• Mr Gomez, you are not to bright. Posting death threats as a matter of public record is simply stupid. Really, you come off as a wiener, all talk, but should you actually be a psychopath inclined to murder someone, you are on record.

•  You don't. You have the birthright to use marijuana, Valerian, Lemon Grass, and other botanical herbs, to heal yourself,  or just to feel better, without interference from the tyrannical and moralistic Nazi-like prohibitionists and a doctors note. The same profiteering from the doctors that receive lush kickbacks from the Pharm pushers. Many are not interested in healing or researching the cause and effect of disease, and instead opt to place blind allegiance to the insanely profit motivated allopathic medical cartel, and trust the many arrogant condescending, corrupt doctors with their god-like self image. Now, you must heal yourself in secret, or even choose to alter your consciousness, for fear of attack from  the violent predator prohibitions police force and politicians. They want to destroy you, nothing less. They will stalk you, invade your home in the middle of the night, trash your house, steal your car, house, cash, assets, and valuables. They will hold guns to your children's heads, terrorize you while screaming profanities and threats of death. They may even kill you. You will be dragged from your house, manacled, and put into a jail cell. They will demand bribes from you, (fines and bail). They will imprison you, sometimes for years, put you into a population of other violent predators. They will stamp you as a criminal for the rest of your life. So be aware and be careful. What you are doing is your birthright, hampered only by ugly, evil, violent hearts.

• You don't. You have the birthright to use marijuana, Valerian, Lemon Grass, and other botanical herbs, to heal yourself,  or just to feel better, without interference from the tyrannical and moralistic Nazi-like prohibitionists and a doctors note. The same profiteering from the doctors that receive lush kickbacks from the Pharm pushers. Many are not interested in healing or researching the cause and effect of disease, and instead opt to place blind allegiance to the insanely profit motivated allopathic medical cartel, and trust the many arrogant condescending, corrupt doctors with their god-like self image. Now, you must heal yourself in secret, or even choose to alter your consciousness, for fear of attack from the violent predator prohibitions police force and politicians. They want to destroy you, nothing less. They will stalk you, invade your home in the middle of the night, trash your house, steal your car, house, cash, assets, and valuables. They will hold guns to your children's heads, terrorize you while screaming profanities and threats of death. They may even kill you. You will be dragged from your house, manacled, and put into a jail cell. They will demand bribes from you, (fines and bail). They will imprison you, sometimes for years, put you into a population of other violent predators. They will stamp you as a criminal for the rest of your life. So be aware and be careful. What you are doing is your birthright, hampered only by ugly, evil, violent hearts. 

• Not only did NORML delete my post critical of NORML Executive Director Allen St. Pierre, NORML spammed my email with hateful comments. They seem to hate free speech and love censorship. NORML, one more spam, and I file complaints..

• All you "me first-screw you" mmj fanatics need to get real. It is the recreational users that have supported your rights all along, yet you consider the 750,000+ cannabis users that get busted every year nothing more than collateral damage. You should be ashamed.

• RESIGN IMMEDIATELY on line Petition in the works. We don't need these RECREATIONAL JOY and FUN seekers screwing our life with their attention getting lead ballon comments.  RESIGN IMMEDIATELY

• Are we going to have another Prop19 type defeat because it doesn't cover 18 - 20 year olds? CO initiative 30 is a great start. Lets get it legal for adults like alcohol then get the age lowered to 18. Its better to have a toe in the door then to loose it because of a small group of people. I have so far have not seen any thing about closing Any Dispensaries down. Where is that part?

• feed the media!

• I hear a lot of mealy mouthing but if you really want to legalize it, put your money where your mouth is. Regulate Marijuana Like Wine legalizes adult discretionary use, saves medical marijuana and it stops the feds. http://www.regulatemarijuanalikewine.com/donate

• I am ending my membership today

• If the medical marijuana industry is just a "sham", as Alan St. Pierre purports, why is NORML supporting MPP's Colorado Initiative 30, which is based on the medical marijuana regulatory system set up by the state of Colorado to put 80% of dispensaries out of business? If NORML believes mmj is a "sham", why would they support the same regulatory system used for patients (with RFID chips, seed-to-sale tracking and 24 hour police surveillance) to be used for all marijuana users? Don't you think this is a little hypocritical?

• Any time you smoke you kill off cancer so i guess its medical all the time!

• So what did NORML's directors say when you pointed this out to them?

• But Medical Marijuana Laws are a Sham and a Joke. People with a Medical Card are supposed to be safe and so are the dispensaries but they are Not Safe. Every state that does pass this, it seems, to come up tougher rules and reg's (smaller and smaller hoops) for the patients to jump through. Some state will allow people to grow at home, but you can only grow so much and it has to locked away so no minors can get to it and some places, Hidden or grown inside. But wait there are different rules for inside too. Other states do not allow you to grow but don't give permits for dispensaries to open. This is another reason we NEEDED Prop 19 passed, but NOOO it didn't have in writing a 100% guaranty that as a 215 patient I won't loose ANY of HIS Rights to grow or carry or to be able to smoke.  The No Voters didn't care what they were doing to the movement as a whole, they just wanted to keep what they had. No thought that after 19 passed they would be more secured and safe. So yes MMJ Laws is a Sham, for every time the Fed's raid a dispensary (Yea Obama you won't bother them) and close it down destroying the place so it won't be reopened. Every time a city can install new tighter rules if not BAN Dispensaries out right. Every time some place tries to revoke the law saying its being abused  letting healthy (like it really matters) just get high. Another thing lets stop with the Alcohol and safer then Drugs. Its an HERB for Medical Wellness and a Happy Life like any other Herb you can buy like 'Valerian Root' to help you sleep. There are a lot of Herbs for Holistic Healing that you don't even need a Doctor's Recommendation to use. 

• Bill thank you for the clarification. I was concerned when I read the quotes in the celebstoner piece and I'm glad you stepped in and enlightened us.

• A few years ago I was the same way...100% medical aplications, and didn't really care much about the rest of it.  Over the last few years, though, I've come to realize that--despite the apparently popular view that new taxes, new regulations (on a plant that CAN NOT kill you), new criminal offences and new prison terms are "a good way forward"--I've since decided that Jack was right. If it's not freely available to ALL people on this planet who need it, than we have not won. I've said before that I simply don't CARE if you want to grow/smoke your own...but I should have made it clearer that the "recreational market" can still have it's place.  We can create a bill which would divert all NORMAL (i.e: already existing) sales taxes from non-medicinal cannabis products not to "general coffers", but towards funding of those people who are in genuine need of cannabis to help their medical conditions.  IF we did this, the 90% of people who simply want to kick back on the weekend could fund the 10% of people who would either suffer needlessly or die without cannabis. No new taxes required, but we would have the ability to CHOOSE where our tax money went for a change, and I doubt that anyone would complain that their sales tax money went to helping people for a change, instead of persecution of innocent people, building new prisons, or whatever they actually DO use our money for. I also have to agree with you that the "We'll break it now and fix it later" approach hasn't quite worked out so well in the past, and we should have sense enough as a species to understand this, and to change our course. Unfortunately, we have groups like NORML who are proud to have failed for the last 40 years, and we have hundreds of thousands of people who are proud to continue to send them money, without ever asking themselves "Why do we keep paying them when they haven't done anything yet?" Then again, we never ask those questions of our politicians, either...and those are the people who first created the problem of prohibition in the first place. Does anybody out there honestly believe that the government is going to fix it on their own, while we still keep paying them tax money regardless of their dismal performance record? Politicians set the precedent...NORML is just following along and playing the game.

• Your venture to guess that 20% of patients are not legit has not what I've seen in Oakland at the Doctors office. My last renewal had about 30 people in the waiting room, 25 were clearly over 50 and looked as if they might have a qualifying condition. Only 3 were in their 20's and 2 of them were denied a rec. 7 of the people were in casts, wheel chairs, on crutches or heavily relying on a cane and these 7 people alone account for the 20% you mentioned. One thing Jeff Jones asked me while getting my patient ID is 'Are you compassionate'. And now I'm asking that question to you Daniel. Cannabis has be bred for recreational users for 40 years and the breeder selects the name for his strain, like any other plants.

• I-502 is the "one step forward and ten steps back".  I don't normally discuss "legalization issues" unless they affect patients.  But I-502 would criminalize EVERYONE who buys state licensed pot and then gets a DUI for smoking it....the night before. If all of you who so adamantly support legalization want a good law that will "legalize" and not "criminalize" at the same time, support a better friggin bill.  You have that option.  Don't just vote for the first red herring legislation that comes along. Getting caught with under 40 grams right now (if you're not a patient) is a slap on the wrist and a $500 fine...if that.  Getting a DUI for testing over 5 ng/ml will cost you upwards of $10,000, loss of your drivers' license and jail time, and probably your job....even for the first offense.  Is that really your idea of "legalization" for this state?  Is that what you really want?  Or have you even thought this out before supporting it? The proponents of I-502 have implied that they can "fix this later".  Really?  How many people will have to suffer the consequences of this legislation before someone can actually manage to "fix it"? How many times have we been told by our legislators that they'd "fix" the medical cannabis law?  Does ANYONE think that it's been "fixed" yet?  Patients sure don't believe that. Ignorance is fixable.  Stupid is forever.  If you believe the lie that somehow we won't all end up with DUI's before this is finally "fixed"....count yourself in the "stupid" category.  (You also probably believe that the Governor will lower taxes this year and that we won't end up with another billion dollar plus budget deficit at the end of the legislative session).   I'd prefer to believe in the tooth fairy...at least she leaves me some small amount money instead of stealing the last of my change from under my pillow like the state government. If you think that government is ever going to provide the solution for cannabis reform, and not those of us who really care about serious reform, you need to do a serious reality check on yourself.  It simply won't happen.  Never has, never will. You will actually have to get off your stupid lazy asses and become activists.  You'll actually have to WRITE to your legislators and let them know you'll throw them the hell out like yesterdays trash if they don't support the cause.  If you can't even do that much, just keep wishing that the politicians will eventually save you and that NORML will be there to help them...as long as you keep contributing. Stupid really can't be fixed. Steve Sarich  

• "I've seen more shit started by so-called judgmental rich "activists" whom are in it for fame to last me a while...." Well Tuck....you've been here in Washington for a while now.  Would you like to tell us all who the rich activists are here in Washington?  Hell....can you just provide us with a list of poor activists that are really ACTIVE in the movement here in Washington? I'd bet the list is pretty short, just from my own experience. Maybe you can just give us a list of the "agent provocateurs" that you refer to? Everyone loves a good conspiracy theory, but we'd sure like to have the names for the screenplay. It's very easy to sling the shit without revealing who the hell you're actually talking about.  Some clarity in your posts would be refreshing.  I'm not even sure who you're attacking....or why you're attacking them by reading your posts. If I call someone out, I name them and I defend my position. You may not like what I have to say, but at least you have something actually argue against if you don't agree. NORML is supporting I-502 which will criminalize all the patients in Washington, like you and me. Are you, or are you not, in favor of that? Simple question. Steve Sarich

• When the feds made growing mj a privelage to only people possessing a marijuana stamp, they turned the everyday mans right to grow a crime. At the time, this was ok. However in 1943, the Supreme Court's decision in the religious test case, Murdoch v. Pennsylvania 319 U.S. 105 was that no State could convert a previously secured right into a privelage and issue a license and fee for it. A marijuana stamp is a license to grow, they can call it what they want but it's a license. This should have nullified the Marijuana Stamp Act, I know what you are saying, Jerrad, they dont talk about mj in the constitution. And I would say, Dont you think its safe to say that in the late 18th, entire 19th, and early 20th century nobody ever thought that marijuana would be criminalized in America. The drafts to our Constitution were written on hemp. Presidents grew and consumed it. And if that is the case, you could say it was a right of the People. You also have to ask yourself, what does Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness mean to me. Freedom from repression for the simple act of growing, possessing and consuming a plant would bring me lots of happiness, dont know about you. Bear with me, I've got a little bit more. Now in 1962, a case made it to the Supreme Court, Shuttlesworth v. Birmingham, AL. The decision in that case was if a State tries to convert your rights into a privelage, you can ignore the license and engage with impunity, meaning they cant prosecute you. Now I can say this till I'm blue in the face and I have been in, in my own ongoing case but, it will never do any good until rest of everyone of us stands up for ourselves. In my 6+ months dealing with my own case, I have seen countless people paying hundreds of dollars to plead them guilty. I just want to stand up and scream, you could have have did that on your own. Then took that money and put it to your fines if you really think your a criminal that deserves to be punished. If enough of us got together we could also make this real simple with probably the most important case in our history, Marbury v. Madison 5 U.S. 137, which says any law that comes into conflict with your federal constitution is null and void of law, no courts are bound to enforce and no citizen is obligated to obey. This case is so important, it's hard to put into words but for over 200yrs people that obviously hate freedom have been trying to overturn this decision. When they realized they couldn't overturn the case, they simply started ignoring it, saying things like that case is over 200yrs old so it cant still exist. I've heard it come out of many policeman's mouth. Anyway I hope I've left you at least curious about what I've been writing and I want to thank you for reading. Stand up for what you believe and be the change you want to see in the world.

• SteveSarich You're saying that I'm the only one who can see the post prior to mine I responded to?  That's a little hard to believe.

• OK....some stuff seems to get posted and some stuff, like me "liking" Steve Tucks comments seem to be included.  I don't know whether to post here or not.  I'm not sure what, if anything will get posted.  That's pretty sorry. Steve

• You are apparently posting a response to my earlier posting (because you're quoting it) that no one else, including me, can even see.  I can't carry on a one-sided arguement with you on a public forum.  I hope Steve Elliot can fix this issue. Steve Sarich

• You ask them yourself Steve as I'm sure all three would agree with me about this diatribe being divisive bullshit over nothing, ask them yourself? I've learned plenty up to now as I'm a big boy too and been at this for far longer than most (just ask Google) and have paid some steep prices and Allen was fighting this fight even way back then in ways you can't even comprehend.... I will go so far as to say in public that Allen is one of a very few people I know in the movement (because it is in his heart and what he believes in) whom is actually qualified for a real job unlike most of the rest of these poser BA's who would be flipping burgers if they were not working at NGO's....I'm really starting to wonder what motivates all this hater bullshit that keeps coming from "them" as it couldn't have been written by the cops any better and always arrives when it's time to change the status quo??? Lead, Follow, or get the fuck out of the way but all this gossip and he said/she said is a sure way to get us all in a gulag! Peace, Steve Tuck

• OK then, why don't you ask Douglas Hiatt or Sunil Aggarwal or Dr Greg Carter what THEY think of St. Pierre's statement. You might learn something.

• Reform leadership..where. They knew the feds were going to use cross designated state and local law enforcement to bypass the affirmative defense..and did squat.. Except stand by and wait for the cases to roll in. No injunction at all to stop state resources from being used to circumvent state MMJ laws. Reform lol what a joke. They sat back and capitalized on the legal quagmire.. and worked constantly to take out loop holes in the quagmire... so the quagmire could create work for lawyers,judges and the cops. No injunctions no rescheduling nothing but status quagmire.

• >>"Each time we appealed to the governor and each time she rejected the appeals." 　 That's your governor, not NORML. Evidently, it's not quite as easy as you think - or try to paint. NORML is at the forefront of winning processes, state by state. You ignore major advances for minor flaws. This legislation will be monumental in its re-infusing of freedom to the citizens. It will not carve marijuana policy in stone. We will continue to refine it until we arrive at the optimal form - just as we did with alcohol after ending its prohibition. -  The driving restrictions will soon fall, as the public hysteria banishes.  All will see the research shows marijuana consumption is not a significant cause of auto accidents. http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450 　 Your ideas about taxes are unrealistic. An agreeable price and tax level will be worked out. The main thing is prices will drop exponentially as the "risk" premium is gone. It's just a plant. - Average quality marijuana will probably sell for about $50 an ounce plus $20 to $30 dollars in taxes.   There's not much danger of marijuana reforms being gutted. Polls show public support for ending all of prohibition continues to grow, now near 60 percent in the Western states. Once re-legalized, marijuana will move to its correct ranking - closer to coffee than to alcohol.

• I suspect some here, like you, are government saboteurs trying to rip the marijuana reform community apart.  If you're not, it's likely you are a greedy grower trying to protect your outrageous prices.  I'm a medical marijuana patient, and I agree with Armentano.  Most of us will not be fooled by this vicious nonsense.  We know the fastest route to our freedom is through ending ALL of the fraudulent marijuana prohibition. Until we do, we will always have targets on our back, and, at the very least, be prisoners of our respective states.  - See what happened to THIS medical marijuana patient in Texas: http://music.yahoo.com/news/snoop-dogg-arrested-weed-200042924.html If you can't adapt to legal marijuana, choose a new business/profession.  We won't be persecuted any longer for your benefit.  Thank goodness polls show public support for ending the whole, fraudulent marijuana prohibition has now passed 50 percent, nationwide, and is near 60 percent in the Western states.  -- THIS is the year! Marijuana OTC

• With a fused spine from being a disabled veteran who has to have cannabis or die I guess that makes me a patient.To all those haters whom are taking an out of context email and trying to defame a great man I say to you as a for sure real patient, one who has been a refugee and thought they would never get to see their families again....Where were you when Allen St Pierre arranged a legal defense for me when I was laying in a federal dungeon facing life in prison with a tube in my penis and throwing up blood it was NORML, Allen St Pierre and Richard Cowan whom got Douglas Hiatt and Dr Sunil Aggerwal to come into the bowels of hell in SeaTac and rescue me from certain death and everyone of them did it for free because it was what they believed in same as Dr Greg Carter whom has treated me since then, as they walk it the way they talk it. At no time did I think he felt my life was funny or the fact I spent time in the ICU upon release was a joke either? These divisions are what is holding us all back and are being egged on by agent provocateurs and doing nothing but providing ammo and delight to those whom would put us all in cages and everybody here need remember in their eyes we ALL wear the star of green now and the only way to freedom for all of us is to actually FREE all of us! Our path is clear now, it's either victory together or we are all going into those towns they got built in the mid-west as prisoners... both patients and the well whom use this gift from God how we all see fit. There have been mistakes and abuses on both sides of this issue and the time for airing of them is not now, cannabis is for all healing not just those with enough money to buy a get out of free card. I've seen more shit started by so-called judgmental rich "activists" whom are in it for fame to last me a while...."celebstoner" my ass, now there is a name that speaks with forked tongue as the very image of "stoner" is the one we are trying to beat instead of PC games I see coming from them over and over! Peace, Steve Tuck

• >>>"NORML, MPP and the ASA have always had the solution, along with both the legal knowledge and expertise to win the battle on rescheduling. Hell, I know it,"　"So why are you keeping it a secret? What is it?" Who's keeping it a secret?  I've written numerous articles about it, as has Carl Olsen, who actually forced Iowa into rescheduling and they aren't even a medical state.   Washington has to hold rescheduling hearings to look at the science and decide exactly which schedule cannabis belongs it.  While our lying governor "says" she supports rescheduling, the Board of Pharmacy who she appoints, has turned down our petition to hold rescheduling hearings for four straight years.  Each time we appealed to the governor and each time she rejected the appeals.   The Governor, along with Governor Christie, both know that Washington MUST reschedule before it can force the Feds to reschedule.  We can't force THEM to reschedule when WE refuse to do it here in Washington!  Currently we have two contradicting laws.  One law says that marijuana has no accepted use in the U.S. and one that says that it has accepted medical use in Washington and outlines the conditions for which it has medical use.   The last time I checked, Washington is still in the U.S..  If Washington reschedules cannabis the Attorney General of Washington can force the Feds to reschedule (Gonzales v. Oregon).  You don't think the governor is well aware of the case law on this issue?  You don't think she knows that her tactic is nothing but another stall? The Governor gutted the last bill that would have set up legal dispensaries and licensed grows.  She said she feared that state employees would be at risk of Federal prosecution based on a letter that she got her former attorney, Jennie Durkin, (now a Federal prosecutor) to write to her to try to cover her bogus claims that state employees would be at risk.  When she did this, I pointed out that the Governor and Durkin cited all kinds of Federal statutues from the CSA (Controlled Substances Act).  The only one that they both managed to leave out was Title 21, Section 885(d), which gives federal immunity to state employees who are carrying out state laws regarding controlled substances.  You think the Governor and the AG were unaware of the one Federal statute in the CSA that protects state employees from Federal prosecution?  Governor Jan Brewer in Arizona just tried the same scam that Gregoire used.  She sued in Federal Court to try to stop the implementation of their medical marijuana law and Brewer argued that it should be stopped because state employees  could face Federal prosecution.  The Federal Court just threw case case out of court last week, nearly as fast as it was filed.  These anti-pot governors know that they'll never win in the long run, but they have an organized strategy to stall the process as long as humanly possible. >>>"...while still hoping for a different results than you've gotten every single year for decades now."Don't look now, but marijuana reform has made incredible progress since 1996" Don't YOU look now or you'll see that we've consistently lost rights under the Washington State medical marijuana law.  This was entirely at the hands of the "reformers" that you seem to blindly idolize.  This year NAW and Sen. Kohl-Welles will further attempt to take away the rights of patients....including their right to medical privacy and their right under the 2nd Amendment to "keep and bear arms".  Not to mention criminalizing all of the patients in the state with a scientifically indefensible DUI law that will snare countless patients with DUI's when they aren't anywhere near intoxicated.  NORML is supporting this heinous initiative. They'll also be trying to tax cannabis to the point where the only place you'll be able to afford it is from street dealers.   Kohl-Welles will attempt to totally gut the law by letting cities and counties "opt out", leaving patients a choice of traveling hundreds of miles to get medication or going to street dealers. With friends like NORML, MPP, Senator Kohl-Welles and Alison Holcomb (ACLU)....who needs enemies. If you can see where these "reformers" have brought "progress" to patients here in Washington, please let me know. Your allegations that I don't support the further loss of patients' rights simply because I'm greedy and might somehow lose money if I help protect their rights is certainly a specious arguement.  I certainly will not support "legalization" when it criminalizes patients. Hopefully this answers all your questions....including the "secret" ones. Steve Sarich

• Good article

• The people writing in support of Allen St. Pierre accept without question his position that there is a backlash against medical cannabis underway which somehow necessitates abandoning support for it -- this is an essentially reactionary posture. NORML is content with its history of losing the debate over cannabis, and has every intention of continuing to do so. NORML has a reputation for being more social than political, and if the most motivated of its rank-and-file are those posting the various statements here parrotting St. Pierre and Timid Russ Belville's reactionary stance on medical cannabis, it may be that the organization itself and not just its president and propagangda minister are useless. NORML owes us and itself new leadership now.

• "And I would rather go to court over a misdemeanor drugged driving charge than to prison over a roach."  Well, if you look up our current laws in WA, less than 40 grams is a misdemeanor, with a 1-90 days in jail penalty, plus possible $250.-$500. fine, so your roach is less expensive than your future DUIC charge which would be 1-365 days in jail, $500.-$5000. fine, and your car insurance goes up. Less than 40 gmisdemeanor*MMS 1 Day - maximum 90 days$250-$500

• If, as you say, it were simply a case of not driving so baked you shouldn't BE driving,that would be fine.The problem arises when police stop people on some BS pretext, just to see what excuse they can use to extract DOLLARS from innocent motorists. The goal is usually to catch drivers without some document and charge them some outrageous fine for it (license, registration, insurance) and there are DOZENS of pretexts they can use to make the stop "perfectly legitimate". This per se duid would be a virtual gold mine to some small communities struggling with fiscal problems and punishing "these druggies" would be perfectly acceptable to people living in these small towns.

• So sad and thank you for articulating what is the dis-connect here. Good job!

• I am from Germany and definately Pro-Cannabis. After watching Weed wars though, i got the impression that deangelo saw himself as someone who should have the exclusive right to smoke weed. Calling it "medicating" shall give it a better tone? Should I now say that I "medicate" when I make some camomile tea? Also I got the impression that prescribing weed for depression, backpain and such "diseases of civilization" is a pretty easy to do thing, almost everyone is suffering from one of them nowadays. For Backpain for example the recommendation should (imho) mostly be: "do your physical exercise (and smoke a spliff to mellow out at the days end)" instead of "you should try weed". I got rheumatism and I guess for severe cases, thats another deal BUT rheumatism diagnosys takes about 10 years! Not a five minute doctors counceling. So even If the NORML-statement doesnt serve the big purpose I can still understand it well

• Sorry, folks.  Software problems.

• You wish.  This drama is interesting, but the polls show pubic support for marijuana re-legalization has now climbed to near 60 percent in the Western States.  This is the year.  -- Find another group to hate.

• Wow. What a pile of bile. 　 >>>"NORML, MPP and the ASA have always had the solution, along with both the legal knowledge and expertise to win the battle on rescheduling. Hell, I know it,"　So why are you keeping it a secret? What is it? >>>"...while still hoping for a different results than you've gotten every single year for decades now."Don't look now, but marijuana reform has made incredible progress since 1996. There are now 16 medical marijuana states, many areas have decriminalized marijuana or made marijuana arrests their lowest law enforcement priority, and public support for ending marijuana prohibition has now passed 50 percent, nationwide. California, and other states, will likely re-legalize marijuana at the polls in November. With this preposterous attack on marijuana reform leadership, you seem the perfect example of the greedy medical marijuana profiteers. You appear terrified at what you will lose with re-legalization.   I guess there won't be much need for medical marijuana 'facilitators" then, will there?   Thanks for exposing yourself.  >>>"NORML, MPP and the ASA have always had the solution, along with both the legal knowledge and expertise to win the battle on rescheduling. Hell, I know it,"　So why are you keeping it a secret? What is it? >>>"...while still hoping for a different results than you've gotten every single year for decades now."Don't look now, but marijuana reform has made incredible progress since 1996. There are now 16 medical marijuana states, many areas have decriminalized marijuana or made marijuana arrests their lowest law enforcement priority, and public support for ending marijuana prohibition has now passed 50 percent, nationwide. California, and other states, will likely re-legalize marijuana at the polls in November. With this preposterous attack on marijuana reform leadership, you seem the perfect example of the greedy medical marijuana profiteers. You appear terrified at what you will lose with re-legalization.   I guess there won't be much need for medical marijuana 'facilitators" then, will there?   Thanks for exposing yourself. 

• I've been criticized for years for pointing out what couldn't be more obvious.  NORML, who's run by the trial lawyers who make their income off of pot being illegal, and MPP who'd be out of business tomorrow if pot was legalized, are NOT ON OUR SIDE!   Now this is just a chess game these two organizations are playing to make sure that their executives and supporting members have a steady income.  Do you really think they're working to put themselves out of business? Clearly I-502 will criminalize every patient in the state of Washington, but the attorney's who are members of NORML also represent pot DUI cases....so they will support this bill that will provide them a new and steady income stream for years to come. NORML, MPP and the ASA have always had the solution, along with both the legal knowledge and expertise to win the battle on rescheduling.  Hell, I know it, so I know they do. I know that Carl Olsen has certainly explained it to them...and the governor.  So why have they failed to take the actions necessary to do this, while at the same time collecting millions from supporters to "solve" this problem? The answer is that they are working stifle the effort to solve the problem, both for patients and for recreational users, as long as they can still raise funds to support their organizations and that the trial lawyers who support them financially still have plenty of work. This is really a story more about who is screwing us and who keeps buying into the bullshit that they keep shovelling.  NORML and MPP have supported every bad medical marijuana bill that's every come through the legislature here in Washington.  I fought them on it and they didn't even want to hear the facts....they knew EXACTLY what they were doing and told me so. Now they're supporting I-502.  Next they be supporting the new bill by Sen. Kohl-Welles to register patients like sex offenders, tax medical marijuana into the dirt and let any city and county that decides to ignore the medical marijuana laws in this state if they choose (which will be all but the city of Seattle).  This will gut the medical cannabis act in this in this state. Thanks Jeanne!  You've proven to be the law enforcement lobbiest that you've always been...a real wolf in sheep's clothing.  Why anyone ever argued about Jeanne not being on our side, I'll never understand, but it's become pretty apparent even to her most ardent supporters. If pot were legal in Washington tomorrow, without heinous criminal penalties like the proposed DUI law, would you be sending anymore checks to NORML or MPP or ASA?  Let's be real....we all know the answer to this question.  Now ask yourself if you believe that Keith Stroup (NORMAL) no longer wants his paycheck and want to start a new legal practice when his make marijuana legal.  This slimeball has made a living off of our suffering and he's not likely to give up that regular paycheck. If you can't figure out these dynamics, you're just not very smart...and willing to trust the same people who've screwed you for decades now.  I'll never change your mind.  For the rest of you, PLEASE QUIT SENDING THESE FRIGGIN IDIOTS MONEY!...while still hoping for a different results than you've gotten every single year for decades now. If you want to talk about "unity" in this state....quit supporting the people that keep screwing patients and incrementaly taking away our rights.  We can ALL get behind THAT issue.  Let's DO THAT this year!  I-502 is a TOTAL LOSER!  Sen. Kohl-Welles is ready to serve us up to the law enforcement lobby on a silver platter.   When will we stop defining "unity" in our community as the willingness to continue to blindly support those who keep screwing us at every opportunity?  If that's unity....continue to count me out!  If we can't all be smarter than that, we will all get what we deserve....ten more years of prohibition. Christine Gregoire tanked the last legislation that would have established state licensed grows and dispensaries.  She did it based on the bogus allegation that it would put state employees at "risk of federal prosecution".  Governor Jan Brewer just tried this arguement in a Federal Court in Arizona to stop their medical marijuana program from being implemented.  The Federal Court Judge threw it out as having no merit.  These are not governors that are "supporting" us.  The are thwarting the will of the people who have voted on these laws.  They know how to win this issue in the Federal Courts and continue to work on the side of the Feds and local law enforcement who oppose rational laws on medical cannabis....by playing stupid...and counting on YOU being stupid. They'll all be exposed, especially Gregoire, in this upcoming legislative session.  All I can say to the NORML and MPP folks is PLEASE....stay OUT OF OUR STATE and medical cannabis.  You've already made it clear that you think we're not legitimately using cannabis for legitimate reasons....like you would know.   This year you'll have me ripping you a new one if you support more bad legislation in this state.  I will make this a very personal crusade to see that you don't collect one more dime here again. If I hear one more person say "why can't we all get along", I'm going to scream.  The short answer is that you idiots want to continue to financially support the people who have the greatest stake in keep cannabis illegal and you refuse to acknowlegde that.  Then you get mad at those of us who try to let you know that you're screwing yourselves (and the rest of us)! We'll have unity when we all decide that the people, and not the national organizations, are the answer to solving this problems.  This is just a matter of people being too friggin lazy to take part in the system and hoping that the people you're giving money to are going to do the work for you.  If you believe that you're just suckers.  Sorry. Steve Sarich CannaCare steve@cannacare.org

• I have sat here and read all this ranting and fighting, name calling, cursing, looking at the silly names meant to make you seem cool and come to the conclusion that with you morons arguing and fighting and acting like non intellectual idiots, it will never get legalized, in fact what little progress has been made will most likely be destroyed by the stoners as you so proudly call your selves. You have begun to fight amongst yourselves there by dividing  all who wanted it legalized. You make untrue statement about it you make your selves and all who use marijuana, whether it be for medicinal purpose or other, look like crack pots and morons.  Good job. your screwing it all up.

• Really? That's the best you can do?! What a girl...

• Oops, sorry.  I didn't understand what you were asking me.  I hate to speculate, but I would say that government officials don't do anything voluntarily, particularly if there might be some difficulty involved.  Since the case I'm referring to, Gonzales v. Oregon, 546 U.S. 243 (2006), took a federal law suit and law suits costs money, I don't think you have to look any further for a theory as to why California has not done this.  That's why it will take a citizen to file a law suit in state court against the state for failure to do everything within its power to protect medical use by the citizens.  Certainly, demanding marijuana be removed from federal schedule I is within the state's power and right as a state in the United States (since the criteria for keeping it in schedule I is that it must have no accepted medical use in the United States).  I don't see this happening without a petition for writ of mandamus filed by Californians in state court against state officials.  The title of the case would be John Doe v. California (John Doe being whoever files the case).  The ACLU should do this for the citizens, but I'm sure they won't. Just to give you an example, I filed a petition with the Iowa Board of Pharmacy to remove marijuana from schedule I and they rejected it without even considering it. I sued them and won. After I won, they held months of public hearings and ruled unanimously that marijuana should be removed from schedule I. The money for the hearings came out of their own operating budget. They won't do something like that voluntarily. You have to sue them. In California, your pharmacy board has no authority to reclassify, so you would have to sue the state directly as I am currently doing here in Iowa.

• start looking over your shoulder mr. williams. i think we are going to have a talk.

• Hey Carl, I was just asking about your theory why California hasn't sued on this basis. I understand the alternative definition of "currently accepted medical use" that you are discussing, that's not at issue at all. I understand that is one of the important implications of the Oregon assisted suicide case, and as far as I know, it might be a really good legal strategy.

• sounds like allen would be more helpful if he stepped down!

• He's right though it's going to get boxed in and big pharma will take over and recreational use will never happen

• That is my theory.  What don't you understand about it?  States determine accepted medical use in the United States, not the U.S. Department of Justice.  California hasn't sued the U.S. Attorney General (Eric Holder).  The citizens of California need to sue their state for failure to defend the state law by suing the U.S. Attorney General.  It doesn't get any more simple than that.  It hasn't been done.  It need to be done.  I'm suing the state I live in right now and the DEA's motion to dismiss me from the federal scheduling case was denied on Dec. 7, 2011. In that case I just cited, the state of Oregon sued the U.S. Attorney General (John Ashcroft) for interfering with their state law. Do it, California. Do it now!

• Bill, where does Steve write "that Allen TWICE agreed" to publish this text? If it's true, he should have written it in an editor's note contextualizing St. Pierre's comments, including noting the date the text was first written, the audience to whom it was addressed, and the forum in which it appeared. Presenting the text without any contextualization, whether it was done with permission or not, gives the reader a very different impression of St. Pierre's intent than when one views it as an internal communiqué. At the least, the editor of celebstoner [nice name, btw!] ought to have seen this coming. I'm wondering whether agitation was, in fact, the goal.

• What's your theory, Carl?

• Oh, Mark, I love it when you talk dirty to me... Bet you learned that bent over the barbell bench in the yard, taking it straight up the ass and trying not to let on that you liked it... It would appear from all your silly anger that you either need to smoke better weed or smoke more of it. Daniel Williams

• Divide and conquer. As long as we are in-fighting the government doesn't have to worry about any state passing a legalization initiative. It doesn't matter if they pass per se drugged driving laws for 1 nano of thc in your blood,the states that have had a per se drugged driving laws are not writing tickets for it,if you don't get so baked that it effects your driving you should be alright. If any of our community lives in the 14 states that have per se drugged driving laws would find out exactly how many tickets were issued since their laws were put in place,it would help a lot. And I would rather go to court over a misdemeanor drugged driving charge than to prison over a roach. Legalize and regulate.

• you are fucked. you asked if you break the law does that mean you go to jail. no shit stupid. you need the note to be legal, are you still having problems with those glasses? i'm sure someone will read the law to you. prohibitionist, wow, what a fool you are.

•  fuck you rat. nobody but snitch fucks get busted and don't do any time. got busted in 71 and 72. what the hell, did you have a whole joint? i' m talking about doing time, you know years. so why don't you shut the fuck up about shit you don't know. or post your last name you little bitch.

• what the hell are you talking about? i never said any thing about wanting anybody to go to jail. i was stating that progress has been made. daniel said there had been no progress. besides fuck wad i did years for my convictions not hours you lightweight take it in the ass sissy bitch. i also post my real name you little bitch.

• "Why are you sitting there trying to tell us this state needs a medical marijuana law when NORML itself has admitted medical marijuana is a fraud and a sham?" So Steve medical marijuana is a fraud and a shame you say? And yes it is you who have misquoted St Pierre who clearly states that this fairly new medical cannabis "industry" and I repeat "industry" (I'm sure you love the double quotation) has many flaws. And it does. Just because you don't recognize the issues doesn't mean the issues St. Peirre is speaking of don't exist. Yet it seems from my opinion that it is you who is the instigator of mayhem with you article of accusation and belligerent responses to persons who don't agree with your point of view. Are you a fortune teller? How do you know what the out come of his remarks are going to be on the emerging med cannabis industry? It doesn't matter I don't subscribe to fortune telling. What I do subscribe to is being honest about how I feel about you using words to demean and belittle persons with derogatory exclamations. I come from a place where if you used your words so carelessly in front of someone and in person I might add, you would find your ears hearing the click of a hammer and I'm not talking about the hammer you pound nails with. If no one else will tell you I will tell you that you come across as a bully and a coward who is hiding in his safe compound when it comes to your excessive remarks towards persons concerned with moving this movement forward. Personally to me your entire article of harsh, close minded and simply unkind remarks have done more damage to our movement than anything St Pierre has said. Are you telling me that it is impossible for there to be persons in the medical cannabis industry that are not totally taking advantage of this great open door to income since they just happen to be in positions of power in our government and have the  ability to maneuver it however they please? I would not take you to be so naive. I would however take you to have been possibly a little irie when you went on your lunatic fringe writing rant. Are you telling me that all the current dispensary's in cali and colorado are independently run by different individuals or is it more like Maine where the state has allowed for 8 dispensary's and four are owned by the same "stakeholderes"? The people in positions to make laws and create legislation for cannabis will try their best to benefit from it if they can. This is the American way. If the industry is equally opened for everyone in the U.S. you can bet your bottom dollar those who have the advantage now will do any and everything possible to obstruct other businesses from sprouting up. Just like big Pharm already has its patents on med cannabis and is making millions while innocent persons around the globe have to deal with jail time,fees,tarnished records and government funded drug programs.  Whether people want to accept it or not med cannabis is big business, for profit or non-profit. You say. "Those who have spent much time examining the problem have come to the conclusion that medical marijuana patients and providers will never, ever be safe in their homes and places of business until cannabis is legal for all adults." I agree. Yet I don't see how St. Pierre's criticism of the emerging medical cannabis industry disagrees with your statement.   How are St. Pierre's statements disparaging for the med cannabis community? I don't feel disparaged from his comments, I feel like I want to look into the facts of what light he might be shining on an industry facing many serious challenges. Your article is full of 3rd grade ha ha in your face rhetoric which doesn't suit you, our cannabis culture or the movement. My understanding of using cannabis is that it is a most peaceful substance that gives us the ability to have a stronger understanding, an open mind,  continued acceptance and support of our fellow brothers and sisters when we come upon a crossroad of disagreement and sensible focus. Cannabis is a vehicle to reason things out without disregarding or belittling the feelings of others. I don't feel bashed by his statements so I would appreciate it if you didn't speak on behalf of all cannabis users whether medicinal or recreational. You say "Of course, we cannot allow cannabis to be "boxed in" that way; rescheduling it is no solution, nor is any way forward which allows Big Pharma to monopolize access to this healing and beneficial plant." How is St. Pierre "boxing in" this new industry when he is simply with much experience I might add showing us all another aspect to this ever evolving game that is officially on. Once again I disagree that his statements don't thrash the med cannabis community because he is talking about the serious internal problems associated with the emerging industry. Yet your fear of how patients will now be in some new supposed danger exceeds a certain limit of comfort for me and I question your motivation for such a harsh response to his words. Or maybe it's just your personality. Once again you have misquoted St. Pierre with "Defending medical marijuana, Mr. St. Pierre, is not "yesterday." It is "today," and it will remain "today" until every single patient who needs it has safe, legal, unfettered access to the herb that helps them the most. St. Pierre said "Defending the 'medical' cannabis industry is so yesterday," You were missing one crucial word and that word is "industry." It is possible that he can see something that you don't see and putting him down and igniting a blazing fire while bringing others along on your journey doesn't help our cause any more than you have claimed his words have hurt our cause. In the words of the great band The Wailers "simmer down." Find love and acceptance and see how we can work together on this. If we're not helping to bring each other together we're tearing each other apart. What part are you going to play Steve? Here's a tip. Humble pie always wins. Anyway I will continue to read your writings regardless of how disappointed I am in this particular article and with that my friend I bid you a peaceful 2012 and beyond. One Love

• I think what was said in a PRIVATE email should have remained private, we wouldn't be having this discussion this kind of bitchin' and moaning isn't going to get anything legalized!!

• I'm wondering why California hasn't sued Eric Holder for maintaining marijuana in a category that says it has no accepted medical use in the United States.  It has accepted medical use in California and California is a state and California is in the United States.  I think the state officials in California are responsible for the mess and they need to be sued for failure to defend the state medical marijuana law at the federal level.  Gonzales v. Oregon, 546 U.S. 243 (2006), says medical use is determined by state lawmakers, not by the U.S. Department of Justice.

• I owned a mmc and to tell the truth only 5% were real patients in need, the rest just wanted to get HIGH

• Two corrections:  1.  According to Steve Bloom, this was published WITH Allen's authroizatrion.  In fact, Steve writes that Allen TWICE agreed to have it published on celebstoner.com 2.  This is not NORML's official position.  It is Allen's.  I can assure you that, as a member of the NORML Board of Directors, I certainly do not condone Allen's unfortunate statements. One other thing, in his hit piece, Allen misquotes me.  I have never called medical cannabis a "sham" or a "box canyon".  I have often noted that California's distribution law is very vague and, as a result, many, if not most dispensaries may not be in technical compliance.  In recognition of this, I have consistently called for clarification of California's laws. Bill Panzer NORML Board of Directors

• This comment was made on a private list serve, and clearly refers to strategy.  I agree with Armentano that the public is weary of hearing about medical marijuana when, clearly, a large portion (I'd say at least half) of dispensary customers are there for recreational reasons, no matter the "qualifying condition." So, yes, that means a large portion are also legitimate patients.   But as long as we have so many recreational consumers there, the public will increasingly not buy the medical marijuana argument. Plus, polls show public support of ending the fraudulent prohibition has now passed 50 percent, nationwide, with close to 60 percent in the Western states.  Of course, NOW is the time to go for the whole enchilada. Instead of trying to blow this minor, private statement up into a full blown civil war in the reform community, we should simply pass over this remark, stay united, and go on about the business of re-legalizing marijuana for all adults.  Otherwise, we have been divided and conquered again.    

• Cannabis should be treated like alcohol. Meaning regulated and taxed. Use by minors should be limited to prescription only. I think you need to realize also that Big Pharma has no interest to them. Marabinol is currently a small company product that is largely underutilized. There isn't enough money there for the big boys to get out a bed, let alone get excited. (I work in the industry so I get the economics).

• So is making a profit the criteria for classifying a operation as a scam/sham? By your definition; Pharma--SHAM! Grocery stores(cigarettes)--SHAM! Alcohol stores--SHAM!

• Why can Pharma make billions of profits, much off very toxic and unneeded overprescribed drugs? Why are alcohol pushers allowed to make a profit?  Why do cigarette companies make a profit? Then we think no, no. no, evil evil evil, marijuana outlets make a profit. OH MY GOD! They're making a profit! WTF!?

• Since you feel that I should go to jail for weed (as your reply to my other post indicated), I hope that you had a very lovely stay at prison.

• Spoken like a true prohibitionist.

• I hope that all the people who have posted disparaging remarks about NORML and other activists spend equal or greater time contacting their elected officials. NORML has done a lot of good work. So has MPP. They do more than whine to the choir. Focus your efforts on changing laws people, not tearing activists down. I'm not one of those it's all good activists who attends DPA circle jerk award ceremonies either. There is a time and a place for criticism. But you are deluding yourselves if you think anyone outside of an inner circle of activist malcontents really cares what Alan said. 

• Not true. People drink coffee for the effect of the drug, caffeine in this case. Tennis is recreation. Coffee use is the deliberate taking of a performance enhancing drug. All marijuana use is medical, though most stoners don't know it and when confronted with data are loath to admit they are self-medicating for anxiety or depression or insomnia or headaches. Do you like to get high right before bed? Do you get high after stressful situations? Do you get high after waking up with an alcohol hangover? Medical use.  

• For some people at least, it implies "abuse" or least decadence in that the recreational use is allegedly non-medical. There are those that believe that all marijuana use is medical and the basic criteria for medical use is buying pot rather than waiting for someone to pass the Dutchy to the left hand side at a social occasion. The idea is that marijuana consumers -- whether consciously or unconsciously -- are using the drug as an anti-anxiety agent, i.e. to relax. There is a fine line between marijuana use, doctor prescribed xanax and a stiff drink after a hard day at the office.

• Steve,Cannabis is a friend to all humans and their receptors. While you're too into the "mommy my tummy hurts" act, im going to school you on a perspective.Sure, you may presently feel that cannabis is sustaining you, medicating to prevent being bedridden. It's all in the head. Really, you may just be another potato on the "I'm a sick sack, so I get privilages" couch. At least that's what it seems like. To clarify, no, I do not own a horse, nor am I sitting on it. It's just that while some remain standing with a firm mind, some "medicinal" users have decided to take a comfortable seat.I apologies for making an example of you, but there's this vibe that "actual" medicinal patients put out, that's not welcome to your typical herbal consumer. Let me briefly give you an example that may relate to an extent. I can hear at about 20-30% capacity from my right ear. Does that mean that everyone able to hear at an average volume should be prevented from buying a hearing aid? NO. But hey, you gotta speculate; What if now, they're at an advatage? Can they hear me whisper, when I can hardly hear them speak? Doesn't fuckin matter. When it comes down to it, the more people buy, the more the market grows. The more the market grows, the more competition it gets. A true "patriot" should be familiar with the capitalistic view that compition is a good thing. It increases quality, decreases prices, and gives us more options as consumers. Unfortunatly, when law and private organizations clash for control over the situation, morality is shot and everything becomes for the greater good. Or at least, an exlusive's (or group's) meaning to the greater good. An opportunity to capitalize always lures. The real medicinal user that NEEDS it to function, that doesn't grow, and that doesn't have a stable means of income will be left behind in the dust along with everyone else; while the corporation wins. Enough, I bore myself with similar stories. I work at a collective, and let me warn you; Legal cannabis clubs, at this very moment, are lobbying to reserve a seat when "medical marijuana" becomes law. Ripe for industrializing and ultimatly monoplize. Big CanniPharma is the eventual outcome. The business works with government, the govenment works the the business over, the business works the consumer. There is a format to how big business in the united states come to be, and continue being.Whether you side with strictly medical usage, freedom to use recreationally, or anything in between; the truth is cannabis, when consumed appropriatly, is just as beneficial to anybody as is keeping a balanced diet and exericising regualrly. What is the defenition of sick? Aren't we all? Is there a measuring tool, or some sort of "sicker counter". People are always choosing sides, aligning themselves with communities, choosing the "best", deciding the worst, determining what's unappropriate, and what should be. All very human. All very primative. Oh and the best part? All of it undubitoubly stems off special interest.

• Unfortunately, I think that you're right.  Any time anybody speaks the truth in this "movement" it invariably leads to personal attacks for simply stating the truth.  There are too many people whose incomes rely on prohibition's continued existence--and they are easy to spot--want it to continue forever, because if people have free access again, all of those "alleged" prohibition fighters' jobs will disappear overnight. Look to the ones who travel a lot.  The ones who attack the largest number of other people...those are the fakers, the dividers...the ones we need to get out of the movement, by exposing them for who, and what they really stand for.

• I would enjoy comments... http://420dialog.com/2011/11/12/goldilocks-in-cannabis-wonderland-sativa-farts/ 

• Support Americansforsafeaccess.org and  http://www.cannabisinternational.org/ Cannabis International seeks to assemble a coalition of countries to propose an amendment to Convention One Treaty to remove cannabis. Then, to develop a broad profile ruderalis type plant that is hardy across a wide range of environments and agricultural skill level. Cannabis International will partner with Luxembourg for high volume seed production I order to provide 1 billion pounds of seed to those subsisting on $1/day. Cannabis International recognizes the need for reagent grade standards so that labs can focus on the synergistics of the complex interactions of 525 molecules, comprised of 80+ cannabinoids, a unique array of Terpenes, balanced Essential Fatty Acids and the uniquely digestible plant protein Edestin. Cannabis International is currently conducting and presenting scientific studies on the Endogenous Cannabinoid System and Phytocannabinoids. CI’s research focuses on fresh, raw cannabis. CI works to preserve strains with unique medicinal profiles and educate patients other health professionals, courts, elected officials, and to restore safe access to cannabis worldwide in the name of public health.

• NORML is FALLEN for the WRONG GREEN which is MONEY!

• Mark: I've been busted twice as well - in 1971 and 72. Do you actually believe those who could use mmj but don't is simply because their state doesn't have mmj laws? Come on... No one is just sitting around waiting for mmj laws to come to their state so they can use it. I would venture to guess that of the 1 million mmj patients, roughly 20% are truly in need. The rest are just part of the wink, wink, nod, nod crowd. All you mmj purists are no different than religious freaks, trying to force your agenda on others and, when they resist, start throwing "fuck yous" around. And one last observation: If you want mmj to be take seriously, quit labeling it Mind Fuck and all those other silly names.

• Oh for god's sake, Allen, can you not ever stop pissing off your base with needlessly depressing statements? He's been working this doom-and-gloom schtick for decades. How ~incredibly helpful.~ And of course there are large egos and bigger-than-life characters (in the latter case, the DeAngelo brothers come to mind) in the medical movement -- the marijuana movement as a whole is full of mighty and monstrous egos and colorful human beings, so it only stands to reason -- but that doesn't mean all the dispensaries should close their doors and stop serving patients. Maybe Allen should zip his lip and go sit in a Playboy Mansion hot tub with Rob Kampia.

• Doesn't Steve E live in Wa State like you Jerry? Hows is all that "safe Access" that voters supported over 12 years ago shaping up? Heard you providers got into a little trouble, did the ACLU or NORML call with sympathy? Has Steve written about your plight? Tyler Markwart sits in a jail in E. Wa., convicted using state criminal drug laws. The judge denied the use of Wa MMJ laws for his defense which in the eyes of a jury makes the fake recommendation the pigs used a legitimate ruse to catch a "criminal" provider. Also 5073 was a net loss in rights for patients. Steve you think any intelligent producer is going to risk their "community garden" and register with the authorities. Steve stop pretending we live in the garden > people are terrified to participate in MMJ in Wa State. Getting your authorization has become the reason to continue to get your supply from the street.  

• Wow I can't believe this guy, why would NORML even put this guy on their frontline if this is how he is going to behave. Any news on what the rest of the organization has said about this ridiulous statement?

• wow, sounds like you have no problem with access now. the answer, yes, yes.

• really, really, i've been to prison twice for growing. once state, once fed. both my parents died of cancer young. since the mmj laws i no longer worry about being busted. i could have grown pot for my loved ones with no worry of getting busted. this is progress you fuck. all you assholes won't know what you got till it's gone. keep it up. you'll find someway to self destruct,m you always do.

• medicinal and recreational, why are these two terms fighting each other?, maybe to avoid their common enemy ... you know the one that must be accepted, not defeated. the more you fight, the more lost you are. i don't believe they are fighting, the powers in control mearly convinces enough of us they are?

• medicinal or recreational, can one feel recreational, while needing medicine (headache, muscle, depressed) ? hmmm, initial cannabis intake as medicinal (anxious, to relax), then a moment later for recreation (already feel okay) .... maybe..hmmm?  I think the two terms are misused for manipulation.... and boyhowdy...does it work. someday maybe the shepards in charge will care about thier flock (we sheep) more than themselves. I can only hope for such, but i do have faith, they will know ...  the error of their ways .....someday.

• It is my opinion, that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It is also my opinion that “the Prohibition of Cannabis/Marijuana is a Farce”.  It is also my opinion that the regulations placed on marijuana dating back to 1937, and the war that has been unleashed on it since 1971 were the result of opinions like, “Medical Marijuana is a Farce”. Cannabis is natural medicine. Cannabis heals, prevents and provides pain relief for people who suffer. Cannabis regulates and helps to maintain our bodies own natural endocannabinoid system. This is my opinion, what’s yours?

• hmmmm? recreational, doesn't that mean "feelling good", enjoying oneself..........wtf is sooo wrong with that?, maybe because some who are selfish, bitter, jealous, angry, and condemning of anyone feeling relaxed and content. More than likely because they believe no one has the right to feel better than them? Forty something years later, cannabis is slowly (but surely) helping me to accept "these people" instead of "wanting to" just kick thier ass ( notice i said "want to", did not say "would")   and try to remember, Hitler did not win the war, so why are his ways so abundant?   rec·re·a·tion (r k r - sh n). n. Refreshment of one's mind or body after work through activity that amuses or stimulates; play. ...

• It's nice that you can afford the luxury of pretending to be oh-so-"above it all." Particularly ironic that you feel the need the flounce self-importantly about, when almost everyone here supports the legalization of cannabis for everyone -- it's just that some of us are against abusing patients along the way. Since your health doesn't depend on cannabis and safe access to it, I guess that must be nice. Since mine does, how about you just get over yourself with the grand statements, while some of us are fighting for our lives and health? Once you're able to stop grandly admiring your dramatic reflection in the mirror, snap the fuck out of it and remember that for some of us, this fight is about surviving day to day. In the meantime, please spare us your dramatic ALL CAPS, get your self-absorbed ass down off the soapbox, and shut the fuck up. Thanks!

• You wanna know why NORML is not getting the support it could? Why has it taken NORML so long, when people have been supporting them to get some legislation on the table to end the stupid prohibition on cannabis? SP ought to talk to some MMJ users before making ignorant statements like some of the uneducated political hopefuls. I am a Republican, also a MMJ user, and when younger used for recreation. While I may get a buzz now, and still enjoy it, I am using MMJ as my choice of medicine to relieve the intense pain I am suffering do to arthritis in most bone joints. If you have it, like I have it, I don't need to explain any further. The Republican candidate will not get my vote, or many if my families vote, if they do not support the end of the prohibition. Anyway, to get back on the path, come on NORML...Cannabis, marijuana, pot, weed, kaya, ganja, whatever any may call it, is good for medicine or recreational. Support those who have supported you for so long.

• And how long do you think it will take to get from prohibited to complete legalization with no controls? If we are going to wait until you can take that large a step,you had just as well get ready for your great grandchildren to be fighting this same fight.

• Only a matter of time before Allen's comments are up on the DEA website next to Ask Ed's famous quote.   "Ed Rosenthal, senior editor of High Times, a pro-drug magazine, once revealed the legalization strategy behind the “medical” marijuana movement. While addressing an effort to seek public sympathy for glaucoma patients, he said, “I have to tell you that I also use marijuana medically. I have a latent glaucoma which has never been diagnosed. The reason why it’s never been diagnosed is because I’ve been treating it.” He continued, “I have to be honest, there is another reason why I do use marijuana . . . and that is because I like to get high. Marijuana is fun.” Always assume the mic is hot.

• I really like your message here. It's really been frustrating here in WA to watch this go down, because we have a great legalization initiative here in WA that our local ACLU has worked against for three years, Sensible WA. Year one, we were torpedoed by the opinion of the local ACLU chapter, which was broadcast to local progressive political and activist groups in a voter's guide: "We'll let you decide I-1068: This one is a little tricky. I-1068 initiative would remove state civil and criminal penalties for adult use and distribution of marijuana. While we agree with the underlying principle, our friends at the ACLU have raised legitimate questions about how the initiative is written and the lack of a regulatory scheme." Year two we added a part requiring the legislature to come up with a regulatory scheme by the following legislative session, but still, state civil and criminal penalties for adult use and possession of cannabis would be legal in our state, and it would be up to the feds to come in and spend money prosecuting anyone that gets out of hand distributing, just like what happened at the end of alcohol prohibition in some states, the state just stops enforcing the law. The ACLU's opinion was that Sensible Washington's intitiate was not going to go anywhere because they don't have the money. They put on a "conversation" about how we are going to legalize in 2012 here in WA inviting all of the national players, but Sensible Washington was left out of the "conversation." I was at the NORML conference that weekend in Portland helping with a Sensible Washington booth, where I met Jane Hamsher of FireDogLake.com who was beginning a project called Just Say Now with Students for Sensible Drug Policy. She came up and told me how she loved the wording of our initiative. Over the weekend, she let us know that she had been invited to join the event the ACLU was putting on, but she was perturbed that Sensible WA was not invited. She ended up declining in protest, and she did not attend, even though NORML, MPP, DPA, and others were there, and they all knew that we were not allowed to be there. What's frustrating is that it was ACLU's opinion that Sensible WA would not make the ballot, so many of their supporters were told "Wait til next year, we will do it right" and many people did not even put out effort based on that opinion and now NORML is saying that it's the patients that don't want legalization? Many of the patients that founded www.patientsagainstI502.org are the ones that worked all volunteer for Sensible WA collecting signatures, and several of them are it's sponsors. It is just not the case here in WA that those that oppose I-502 are against legalization. The devil's in the details, the DUIC provision that will criminilize unimpaired drivers whether patients or recreational users, worse for minors, allowing nothing over "0"ng to be guilty of Driving Under the Inflence of Cannabis" The financial costs of that are high, as well as the possible jail time, when the driver is unimpaired and may even have medicated the day before. There's also the part giving the police the right to sell seized cannabis and keep 90% of the proceeds. The only personal grows allowed will be patients, who's growing rights will remain the same, but ma and pa grows, or personal use grows that do not register with the state will be considered unauthorized, but if I502 passes the seized medicine can be sold, and I'm afraid the busts will be more lucrative for the state authorities. Finally there's a problem with federal preemption, which would make the legal cannabis stores not materialize. I would rather be in the position of the feds trying to preempt Sensible Washington's inititiative because at least then our state has made the statement that it no longer is interested in pursuing the failed policy of cannabis prohibition. I am tired of fighting, and the last thing I want to do in this time in my life is promoting anything that is against anything. I wish people would understand and we could work together for real reform.

• We "tolerated" the Medical Marijuana argument solely as a strategy.  And when Prop215 passed in 1996 one could argue this was THEN a good strategy.  But now with over 50% supporting full legalization and Obama using the CSA to crush users, growers and dispensaries such a strategy has long outlived it's usefulness.  So while, yes, Cannabis has legitimate medical use let's face it: most light up to get high and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem with NORML (Allen St. Pierre and Stroup) is that they still insist on government tax, regulation and control.  THAT is not acceptable.  Why would we cede control to the very same asshats that have been using "reefer madness" to support prohibition for the last 75 years?

•  I stand by NORML, which seems to be unpopular. I am a journalist, and Allen was not taken in context. You cannot take a POST from a LISTSERVE thread and make it a stand alone article like in this case. THIS IS UNFAIR and minimizes the work that NORML does. THIS WAS From an October discussion, so why NOW are we all up in arms. i support full legalization, even tho i have glaucoma, because it is a win/win for all. Period. 

• The way I see it...he is CORRECT! #1.   "Marijuana" is a made up word of the 30's dreamed up for Big Pharmas advancement &desire for ultimate control, as well as the rise of the Police State #2.  Cannabis has been used prior to the 30's in Pharmacopoeia for tens of thousands of years #3.  Hemp has been used in Industry for Food Fuel & Fiber for 10's of thousands of years #4.  WE HAVE ALL BEEN LIED TO

• Allen St. Pierre approved publication of his views on medical marijuana at CelebStoner. 

• If NORML had any brains, they would throw St. Pierre out with the trash. Their image is trashed. Pierre is dead weight, a hypocrite, and fucked. In fact, his words make me wonder if this POS is a government plant to discredit the MM movement. The government could not have done it any better.

• WA: Counter initiative filed about legalizing medical marijuana http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017179981_marijuana07.html And this is a possible help with the DUI controversy. ""OLYMPIA — Medical-marijuana patients who oppose an initiative to legalize marijuana filed a counter initiative Friday. Opponents of Initiative 502 filed the "Safe Cannabis Act" with the Secretary of State's Office. Sponsor Mimi Meiwes said she and other medical-marijuana patients worry about what they see as an overly strict blood-test limit for driving under the influence under I-502."" This is a much better tactic than argueing amongst ourselves which will lead to the continued prohibition of marijuana,,for both medical and user.

• "largely a sham" "...that had been in a PRIVATE email,..." Well, being "private" shows him to be an even greater hypocrite than I thought. The coward takes a public stance, but reveals his contempt in his "private" side. Too bad,, you are correct, prohibitionists will be using this idiots words against the movement, and rightly so...."See, even NORML's leader thinks MM is a scam." To bad for the hypocrite frog, He would make a good DEA agent.  

• The one NORML success: Paul Armantano and his awesome reports

• I have said it before, and I'll say it again, if cannabis is put in ANY schedule in the CSA we have lost as "recreational" users of cannabis! This is the point! If you continue to push for medical use of cannabis only, you have shot the rest of us in the foot! It is extremely hard to make the argument that I have the "right" to consume, recreationally, ANY CSA regulated substance. How are we to make the argument, NORML, if cannabis is put in CSA 2, I have the RIGHT to consume a safer alternative to tobacco and alcohol, when a CSA 2 listing makes it clear substances in this schedule "have an extreme potential for abuse"? The MMJ movement, in my understanding, is about a persons right to choose the way to treat themselves, what to use, and not being beholden to ANY body for my well being. This wedge between 'recs' and 'meds' is the problem I have tried to outline for the MMJ community I associate with. Rescheduling cannabis is NOT the answer for the larger cannabis regulation movement. Think of Hemp, how will rescheduling cannabis help those in the Hemp movement??? How does medical marijuana help the larger movement, it provides PROOF to some of our claims about the cannabis plant. But, the point that Allen was making about mmj, in my opinion, is that "we" can not be too short sighted because the powers-that-be seem to keep backing "us" in a corner. They are telling us that "they" don't want us to have it both ways. They are telling us cannabis is medicine, or a "drug" for recreation, not both. We are trying to push the point cannabis IS both! Not to mention I can build my house from it, build a car from it, and power the whole damn system with it!

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