Marijuana and Cannabis News

Marijuana DUIs Went Up 76% In Nevada With Per Se Limit

By Steve Elliott ~alapoet~ in Legislation, News

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 at 12:20 pm

Law Office of Joel M. Mann

Numbers Put The Lie To Claims Washington's I-502 Won't Harm Patients

Driving under the influence of marijuana. It's the new scare tactic used by prohibitionists and drug warriors as an argument against the legalization of cannabis. Unfortunately, it's also used by some people who are supposed to be on our side as a political wedge issue to gain support for Initiative 502, a Washington legalization measure that includes blood THC limits as per se proof that you're guilty of DUI.

The National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, despite its opposition as an organization to per se marijuana DUI testing, has endorsed I-502, warts and all. This seeming contradiction -- wherein NORML supports per se testing in Washington, after having opposed it in medical marijuana states like Colorado and California -- occurs because, NORML says, it's important to pass an initiative, any initiative, to "send the Feds a message."

Well, if the message you're sending them is "open season on medical marijuana patients," then congratulations; mission accomplished! Otherwise, not so much.

The Weed Blog

NORML's "Radical" Russ Belville thinks a "huge rash of DUIs" which might follow passage of I-502's per se THC blood limits might really be a good thing.

"Radical" Russ Belville has served as NORML's main attack dog against those who point out the flaws of I-502, engaging in such unseemly grade-school antics as calling this website "Tool of the Town" for having the temerity to point out the huge flaws in I-502.

But Belville, in attempting to buttress his pro-502 case -- he admits his goal was "punching a hole in the scaremongering around I-502" -- just gave us one of the biggest anti-502 weapons imaginable.

After Nevada enacted a strict "per se" law restricting the amount of THC motorists are allowed to have in their blood, "drugged driving" arrests increased 76 percent statewide, reports Keegan Hamilton at Seattle Weekly.

When a similar policy took effect in Ohio, arrests there decreased by a modest 4.8 percent.

What's the difference between Nevada and Ohio?

You guessed it. Nevada is a medical marijuana state, and has been for a decade.

What do you bet that a big portion of that 76 percent increase in cannabis DUIs came at the expense of medical marijuana patients -- many of whom must medicate at a level such that they will show up over the limit any time they are tested?

But Belville apparently thinks that law enforcement rounding up large numbers of (non-impaired, mind you) medical marijuana patients would ultimately be a good thing.

"Even if I-502 passes and our worse nightmare comes true and there's a huge rash of DUIs, there will be outrage from a public that voted for legal marijuana that says 'What's going on here? I thought we legalized that.' "

Washington patients, how do you feel about becoming part a "huge rash of DUIs?" Radical Russ seems to think you should take one for the cause.

NORML

Tags: DUI, nevada, norml

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221 comments

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Director

I see two states have patients as "exempt". Washington NORML suggests Washington patients should agree that, if I-502 passes, it would be prudent to legislate or petition by initiative to have an exempt status for patients - much higher than Nevada 2 ng limit. The reality is that you are not going to get pulled over any more than you are already. And, if you are not to paranoid to drive and you do get pulled over - try not to smell like the medicine which your doctor recommended (with the fine print which reads: DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY)

Patients Against I-502

A) Where is Washington NORML finding medical cannabis that carries "fine print" and/or a warning about operating heavy machinery?

B) Why should we support flawed legislation that would admittedly need yet another piece of legislation to be fixed? Isn't that how prohibition got started? "Pass this now and 'if' it becomes a problem, you can spend the next 80 years fixing it."

C) If an exemption is how other states deal with competing medical cannabis and per se DUIC laws, why doesn't I-502 contain the same important clause? Would it have been that difficult to educate voters about the already-existing regulations in other states? Why the need to reinvent the wheel?

Director

RE:a) Read any doctors recommendation.b) Regardless of whether you support this initiative or not, our point is that if I - 502 passes, then it would be prudent to lobby for patient exemptions, since they are not included, would it not?c) Ask the authors and sponsors of I - 502. This is one of the problems that arises when one compares marijuana to alcohol.

Director

Speaking of states power, Steve, are you saying that only those states with a regulated and defined state law which allows for the use of marijuana for medical purposes is going to have legitimate patients with high nano gram limits? Are you implying that only those patients who are protected by a state mandate are worthy of the self medication by cannabis that so many enjoy?

Patients Against I-502

Director, if there is no "regulated and defined state law which allows for the use of marijuana," there is no conflict. If one can't LEGALLY use marijuana (for therapeutic purposes of any kind, recreational or otherwise), there is no legal reason for having elevated THC levels.

The problem with I-502 is that it simultaneously makes it legal to use cannabis, while also making it illegal to have THC in your bloodstream above a certain level. Even the most naive voter understands that active THC levels can persist for DAYS, long after any impairing effects have worn off.

Even if a scientific level of THC existed that could be consistently correlated to impairment, a person has no way to reasonably and accurately measure their own levels to ensure they are legally able to operate a vehicle. With BAC there is a simple chart that measures weight and the number of drinks consumed. A "roughly analogous" equivalent does not exist for THC. A new DUI mandate doesn't change these basic concepts.

Director

Your first paragraph gives non patients a reason to vote yes on I-502, because it will give them the legal right to smoke if they do not fit into the current state law which defines who can and can't be a patient..

As driving is a privilege (not a right), in regards to your second paragraph, the point you make about high ng limits days after impairment, again is not an argument against I-502. Rather, it suggests that if get pulled over for a broken tail light or for speeding and you are not impaired and IF you don't smell like maijuana or admit to using it recently, then there will be no reason for a blood test.

If one is too paranoid to drive, then one certainly shouldn't risk losing that privilege for a few days with a dui. But if you do get pulled over, now or in the future, don't smell like marijuana and don't take a feild sobriety test. Ask any attorney, including the ones listed on the WANORML.org advisory board.

Etidorhpa

I can't wait to the police start arresting the stupid idiots who smoke marijuana while driving ,putting other lives at risk.

Patients Against I-502

There are not many who will publicly disagree with you about those who use cannabis WHILE driving, Etidorhpa. Unfortunately, I-502 does not merely outlaw cannabis use WHILE driving. It outlaws all use PRIOR to driving, up to an unknown point in time.

Science shows that active THC levels can persist for DAYS in "regular users," long after any impairing effects have worn off. How long must one abstain from driving after legally using cannabis? If I-502 passes, a "regular user" will need to wait DAYS to legally operate a motor vehicle.

I-502 is nothing short of reefer madness propaganda, perpetuated by the same prohibitionists who have spoonfed the American public for decades: F.B.I. Chiefs like Charles Mandingo, U.S. Attorneys like John McKay, Prosecutors like Pete Holmes and other law enforcement lackeys of their kind.

DonSkakie

1 Like

The police have been arresting the stupid idiots who smoke marijuana while driving, putting other lives at risk under the current law. These arrests are so often and commonplace they are overshadowed by the reports of dunk drivers. Well no, in reality if they were so commonplace they would be ever present in the news. The fact that they are not shows that: 1) Any problem (perceived or otherwise) is already effectively dealt with under current law. 2) If police did not already did not have an effective tool in the law to deal with this "sudden" threat, they would have asked lawmakers for a change long ago. 3) No one wants to be on the road with impaired drivers and expect police to remove impaired drivers, which they already do effectively under the current law. NO ONE wants ANYONE arrested who is not actually impaired and thereby unreasonably denied their freedom. Use science, not irrational emotional appeals!

Greenlv828

You and 'jontomas' have a lot in common. You a paid propagandist with eyes on contriving with the State to set up a cottage industry around cannabis DUI's as well? You two make a great team. 502 is Bad Law and Will Not Pass.

jamesNshoreline_WA

I'm from Shoreline, WA.. My mom is a current medical marijuana patient.. I do understand the concern against I 502.. I just think its a wise idea to be the first state to legalize marijuana even if we agree the DUID regulation is absurd! I will vote yes for I 502 and I'll convince as many people to vote yes for it as well. I honestly think many of you will fight tooth and nail against this legislation, but many of you will decide at the end to say yes to legalization! Thats what I'm doing...

Greenlv828

I see your point of view 'jamesNshorline_WA' and I respectfully disagree. And Thank You for agreeing and admitting the DUID regulation is absurd! I know many people for who this DUI is a deal breaker. That and the fact we just got government out of or liquor, the Liquor Control board formed in 1933. I will vote No and inform many people to vote No for it as well, people ask me. Thats what I'm doing...

jontomas

Right. There really aren't that many marijuana consumers fighting against I-502. Those misguided few just make a lot of noise.

gypski®

I'll make a gentleman's wager that there are enough medical patients and rec users who see through this bad initiative that its gonna go down in flames. People want the ability to grow their own if they can in an amount equivalent to the 250 gallons of home brewed beer or home made wine. They want a scientifically validated THC level per body weight that proves impairment on par with the schedule for alcohol impairment. They want a tax that is reasonable but not one that is assessed to make up for short falls for prior mistakes of the states budgetary processes and loss of the alcolhol distribution system. We aren't the scapegoats or the sacrificial lambs.

Greenlv828

Well said 'gypski'

Greenlv828

You live in Washington, asshole? You talk to real people of just type on the keyboard? Or just moving that paid professional 'Reformer' mouth of yours for the money. 502 is Bad Law and Will Not Pass.

Guest

Dude. Really. Check the facts behind your statistics and recheck your statistics. Go after the facts instead of ad hominem attacks on Russ. “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Disraeli

Greenlv828

"I understand the anger at I-502's per se DUID. I begged ACLU-WA not to include it, or to at least make the standard really high (like 50ng/mL)...That's politics. It sucks - it's the only part of my job I hate"- Radical Russ

jontomas

That's reality. Mr. Belville knows how to deal with it. A few loud posters here don't.

Greenlv828

It's called being a Sell-Out, asshole.

Grenlv828

Blow it out your ass, you smug self-righteous smug punk. 502 in Bad Law and Will Not Pass.

Greenlv828

To, 'jontomas' , the 'Mary Teresa of the Marijuana Movement', smug know-it-all-assshole. Did you not see the response to your idiot bet? This is all a game to paid 'Reformers' like you and Radical Russ. He wants a reality show, you want to bet, and both of you have no problem selling-out anyone who does not agree with you. At least 'Radical' admits this.

No home growing is not 'Legalization', only a paid asshole or a politician would call it so. Insane DUI's laws will increased tyranny, jerk, and will only be modified to create more revenue and zero tolerance. We, in Washington State, just voted government out of our liquor, think we want them in our grass, asshole? Go fuck yourself and your pathetic State paid 'year's salary' political 'Reformer'. 502 is Bad Law and Will Not Pass

jontomas

I have already refuted these lame points many times. Get out of the way of marijuana reform. You fight against the rights of ALL marijuana consumers - just to maintain your monopoly and outrageously high prices. -- That's called blood money.

Patients Against I-502

You said it best jonthomas: "Quit lying about me being paid by someone. That's getting rather tiresome. I speak only for marijuana consumers. You speak for (insert insult here)."

Scientific research proves that "regular users" of cannabis can have THC levels that persist for hours, even DAYS, long after any impairing effects have worn off.

Is it possible that I-502 opponents are simply recognizing basic scientific fact and not unscrupulous corporate thieves out for "blood money" and "maintaining monopolies?"

Greenlv828

Keep calling anyone who disagrees with your State Propaganda, you paid 'Reformer'. The amount of times you call 'shame' on everyone here including Elliot is hysterical. Everybody is a blood money, gangster grower but you, right? Are you being paid by the word?

Who cares what you have refuted or not smug asshole. Get the way out of Liberty. You perpetuate a Police State, Insane DUI's that prove impairment in no way, State voted out of liquor now wants weed. This is 'Legalization' in no way and only a paid propaganda 'Reformer' like yourself would say so. 502 is Bad Law and Will Not Pass.

Greenlv828

'corrupted growers and vendors" that's the line you pathetic paid 'Reformers' are paid to keep pushing. In unison people here all know you are full of shit, look at the posts. Keep cashing that Propaganda check, hero. Hoping to get in on all that DUI money aren't you? Some State sponsored where you school re-educating all those greedy growers and pot DUI's? Pathetic liar sellout. 502 is Bad Law and Will Not Pass.

jontomas

Quit lying about me being paid by someone. That's getting rather tiresome. I speak only for marjiuana consumers. You speak for the corrupted growers and vendors. - Simple.

jontomas

Steve. Shame on you. What a hatchet job. If you're going to do a piece on Belville, then invite him here to defend himself.

To get the real scoop on what Russ says, go here:

http://stash.norml.org/anti-i-...

It's clear the only people who are against I-502 are those who make money off of the persecution of millions of innocent Americans. Greedy growers are in league with the cops and the drug gangs on this.

To all marijuana consumers:

DON'T BE FOOLED BY THESE MONEY GRUBBERS INTO VOTING AGAINST YOUR OWN INTERESTS!

Vote for I-502 and vote for your FREEDOM! - The heck with these prohibition profiteers!

James Tomlinson

I agree! Thanks for the post jontomas!!!!!!!

Fairhill

Sorry, maybe, to be slamming you Jontomas, but to say the 'only people" who are against I502 is just plain illogical as Spock might proclaim. Saying all medical cannabis patients against this I502 are in it to profit from it, is absurd at best, and in the worst case scenario, it makes you look shameful. All the people here against the issue are not greedy growers that came up from Cali after they defeated Prop 19 there, come on, really? Why is it you get edited so often?

jontomas

Gee. Do I get edited often? I didn't notice. Where have you seen me be edited? Sounds like you're resorting to baseless accusation as well. And where did I ever say the greedy growers against I-502 came from California? Unfortunately, unethical greed is a universal trait to be found wherever money is flowing.

Answer me this. Why would a medical marijuana patient (legitimate or otherwise) throw away an opportunity for completely legal status, and end to police harrassment, an end to discrimination on the job, and be so willing to throw the hopes of the rest of the country under the bus - all because of some nebulous possibility of more restrictions on driving?

It doesn't wash. Of course, the "patients" in the naysaying group aren't going to reveal they grow and sell marijuana. Then they couldn't hide under the "patient" cloak anymore.

Nothing you have said gives me any doubt of my position.

jontomas

To greenlv below:

It would, of course, do none of those things. The only thing you are worried about is it will end your blood money of monopoly and outrageous prices built on the persecution of millions of innocent Americans.

And more silly claims about me be paid to speak the truth. - Are you ready to bet yet?

Greenlv828

Because it would not end only intensify Police harassment in Washington State, asshole. Because it would be throwing the Patients of Washington State under the bus, asshole.Because it would not be legal to grow weed, asshole. You could never have any doubt asshole 'jontomas' you are a true believer and to question your doctrine would mean you might have to develop a personality and self-worth outside your pathetically paid professional 'Reformer' job. And if you did that you probably discover that you are indeed an asshole. 502 is Bad Law and Will Not Pass

Steve Elliott ~alapoet~

@jontomas:disqus , Radical Russ is already here defending himself.

Jeeze. At least get a clue what's going on before getting all obnoxiously self righteous and making yourself look supremely foolish in the process.

I am not a "Greedy Grower" (haven't grown a plant in two years), I am assuredly not "in league with the cops" (just read this blog, if you could spare the time, rather than spending all your time telling us how superior you are), and I am assuredly not in a "drug gang."

For you to make such outlandish claims certainly doesn't advance your argument or increase your credibility. Neither does your hysterical USE OF ALL CAPS as if that makes you look like anything other than some whack-job screaming on the sidewalk.

jontomas

Belville is here in the comments section (Thanks, Russ!) but if you are writing an article about him, you should present his position fairly instead of picking only quotes that appear to support your position. That's just dishonest.

I have never stated I was superior to anyone. Just highlighting the obvious motivation of I-502 naysayers does equal that proclamation. It appears it is just the guilty conscious and lack of ability to rebut by the naysayers that forces them to grasp at that lame mischaracterization to attempt to cover their own greed, unethical position and inability to chip away at an argument based on the whole truth.

If you have no monetary stake in the current status quo, then I don't know what your motivation may be. With all the ways there are to make money off the medical marijuana industry, there is no way to know someone is not benefitting. - Perhaps you're just jealous/resentful of Belville and the marijuana reform leadership. I don't know. But it's clear you have shamelessly downplayed the signficance of what the passing of a re-legalization initiative would mean to marijuana reform.Clearly, this groundshaking event would FAR outweigh the momentary discomfort of restrictions that will not hold up long after re-legalization.

And typing in caps is neither shouting, nor hysteria. It is a legitimate manner to give emphasis. If ALL my words were in caps, then yes. But I have never done that. You, also, are desperately grasping at trivia and distortion in a lame attempt to discredit.

jontomas

To Steve Elliott below:

That's interesting. How do you stand to make a lot more money if marijuana is legalized in Washington state?

As Russ Belville has aptly shown, your whining about possible future waves of cannabis DUI's is simply unfounded.

What about the rights of the MILLIONS of Americans who are persecuted for preferring near harmless marijuana over addictive, very harmful alcohol?

You continue to ignore how ending marijuana prohibition will totally change the persecution paradigm we now operate under. - After re-legalization, there will be little interest by police in pursuing the prosecution of drivers who are only impaired by statute. Those that attempt it will find their cases routinely tossed out of court, and the fraudulent law will wither quickly.

Steve Elliott ~alapoet~

I DO have a money stake in legalization:

I stand to make a lot more money if marijuana is legalized in Washington state.

But that isn't as important to me as protecting the rights of innocent people who -- under I-502 -- will undoubtedly be convicted of cannabis DUI, despite being unimpaired.

I'll leave your silliness about "jealous/resentful" unremarked, except to say you must be unfamiliar with who has a bigger audience. :)

jontomas

To "Patients" against I-502 below:

What gives you all away is your refusal to consider the great paradigm change that ending marijuana prohibition will cause. Consumers will no longer be "criminals," the stigma will vanish, and millions of repressed - essentially gagged - citizens will now rush to activate to end all traces of the fraudulent prohibition. - Not just here, but especially for most states that don't have initiative processes. They are BEGGING Washington and Colorado to pass these initiatives to help break the legislative log-jams where they live.

The ONLY "principled" position is to pass I-502 and end the monstrous persecution of ALL marijuana consumers.

Patients Against I-502

The article was not about Belville, as important as some think he is. The article was about per se DUI for cannabis, something Belville is far from an expert on. Steve does not need to inflate Belville's already larger-than-life ego.

As for you Jonthomas, bring some FACTS to the conversation next time, instead of more baseless accusations about the financial status of terminally-ill patients. There are MANY I-502 opponents who have never made a dime off cannabis. They are opposing I-502 on principle alone. Some are not patients themselves, but are intelligent enough to see past the ruse created by NAW and its prohibition-pushing partners. Forgive us for not rushing to support the efforts of the man who put Marc Emery behind bars. Better yet, should we support an initiative that's been endorsed by a former FBI chief?

If I-502 contained per se DUI provisions alone, the marijuana movement would be fighting it wholeheartedly. Instead, because it contains a bone in the form of a decriminalized ounce, opponents are being vilified.

Is it not possible that some have chosen to oppose I-502 on moral grounds alone? What makes you so sure you know the personal motivation of individuals you have never met in your life?

jontomas

To above the ignorance (as if) below:

Sad. That's exactly what the naysayers said against California's Prop 19 in 2010. - "This has flaws. We'll make a better one in 2012. - Well, 2012 is here and WHERE is the better legislation of the naysayers? Gone with the (hot) wind, of course.

Sorry, I don't believe that baloney anymore. I-502 ENDS marijuana prohibition. Period. It doesn't cast marijuana policy in stone. On the contrary, it is the FASTEST way to get what all marijuana consumers want, because then the millions of marijuana consumers will no longer be gagged by being labled "criminals."

No, you naysayers are simply dishonest. You would not support ANY re-legalization effort because you don't want to end prohibition. You are selling some of the pot you are growing and like things just the way they are - no matter that millions of Americans are suffering because of it. - Nice.

above_the_ignorance

My motivation sir is a little something I've heard in stories but have yet to fully experience myself, FREEDOM. We have had 40+ years of this drug war. We can wait another until we create a law that fulfills what we want out of legalization. I do not want an unscientifically-backed DUI provision in any legalization bill. We can take the couple of months to do the correct science, find the actual blood level THC that shows impairment or just get rid of it all together. We've come this far and now NORML wants us to rush to pass ANY legalization bill and then go about trying to fix its problems after its already law. This is how the drug war started and I will have no part in it. We can wait until a good law is written, simple as that. While you argue about it,I'll be up here.. above the ignorance.

Fairhill

Steve, what is the highest number of posts and or replies/comments to an article you have here on your site, as this one seems to be getting rather large.

Fairhill

I like all caps it makes it easier to read. All my bid proposals I turn into General Contractors that I contract with for work are typed with all caps. They appreciate it as they are older men like me and can read it without their glasses on and so on. Most people assume it means your yelling, is that just being internetally correct or what. The texted word can only be seen and not physically heard.

gypski®

"It's clear the only people who are against I-502 are those who make money off of the persecution of millions of innocent Americans. Greedy growers are in league with the cops and the drug gangs on this. "

Sorry Jontomas, with comments like the one above by you, you're starting to talk like Ace Ventura did in one scene of Ace Ventura: Pet Detective.

I'm not a greedy grower, a gang member, nor am I in league with the cops or any other prohibitionist ideology or organization. I'm a patient and prior rec user who wants my individual freedom to act responsibly with minimal state interference when there is no scientifically supported history of cannabis use and driving fatalities or accidents increasing. No I-502 And this is just one reason for this abortion of a legalization bill.

jontomas

And never mind the millions of Americans who can't get a medical marijuana authorization, or, on principle, won't lie to get one, right? The fact they continue to be persecuted is just fine with you, as long as you can skate free, eh?

Again, I can't take at face value the protestations of "patients" like you who so heatedly fight against re-legalization. There are many, many people with medical marijuana authorizations growing and selling, even if they aren't getting rich from it.

The way you folks bend over backwards to avoid the significance of a victory for ANY re-legalization initiative gives you away.

jontomas

To gypski below:

You naysayers are as short-sighted as can be. These driving restrictions are coming, one way or the other. Of course, it is FAR superior to have them come along with re-legalization. That takes the gags off all marijuana consumers, and then they can effectively organize and trash any senseless regulations.

I-502 is the ONLY way we will avoid these misguided restrictions.

gypski®

gypski below says:"Oooh. Darn that old political reality!" I'm just going to take my marbles and go home!"

Medical marijuana has been constantly under attack because it is a wholly incomplete solution. It is fundamentally vulnerable to being nibbled away by prohibitionist forces.

The ONLY thing that will protect medical marijuana patients - and everyone - is to end the monstrously destructive, counter-productive, freedom-strangling fraud of marijuana prohibition.Get out of marijuana reform's way.

@jontomas Now whose acting juvenile? Take my marbles. lol I don't play in rigged games and this law is proposing a rigged game. The hypothetical argument that passing I-502 will not result in an increase or profiling to run up cannabis DUI is a total unknown on either side. You are asking people to give up the privilege to drive on a non-scientifically proven level of intoxication on the promise that it will be fixed later when the scientific fact is proven. For making themselves possible sacrificial lambs so everyone can possess at least an ounce of cannabis without being arrested is a risky gamble. I won't waste the time to do the math, but you can bet in the long run, the first person to get nailed under the non-scientific intoxication level will not be thanking you for the privilege to possess that oz when they end up paying thousands of dollars for the erroneous DUI conviction.

jontomas

gypski below says:"Oooh. Darn that old political reality!" I'm just going to take my marbles and go home!"

Medical marijuana has been constantly under attack because it is a wholly incomplete solution. It is fundamentally vulnerable to being nibbled away by prohibitionist forces.

The ONLY thing that will protect medical marijuana patients - and everyone - is to end the monstrously destructive, counter-productive, freedom-strangling fraud of marijuana prohibition.

Get out of marijuana reform's way.

jontomas

To greenlve below:When you can't refute arguments, attack the messenger. Thanks for the validation of my position.

Are you ready to bet yet about my being paid?

Greenlv828

What an asshole, preaching and peeing on us from on high, what a sage, what a hero, What a joke! When you do your paid political 'Reformer' bit live maybe a bed some soft patriotic music and soul stirring flag-waving would help you set the mood, Hero. 502 is Bad Law and Will Not Pass.

gypski®

Fix it now if you know cannabis doesn't cause impairment. Passing a bad law because its a political necessity is not good policy. We cannot trust politicians, they have proven that time after time. This is just an attempt to baffle with bullshit because it doesn't dazzle with brilliance. I have several issue with I-502 not just the DUI. And its a set in stone NO.

added in edit: As for fixing it later, I saw how the legislators and governor "fixed" the medical marijuana law which proves to me, "fix it later" is a non starter.

jontomas

To gypski below:

You're not even following the debate. I have ALWAYS said science shows marijuana consumption is not a signficant cause of auto accidents, and there is really no need for ANY driving restrictions.

But we DO have a political need for them. The public will not pass this without them. We will correct them soon after re-legalizing. - Try joining the real world.

gypski®

As an after thought concerning impairment for alcohol, there are charts that show exactly how many alcoholic drinks by body weight that will put a person over the limit. Where is that evidence that shows a specific level of impairment under cannabis by body weight? Don't try an shove voodoo legalization down an educated person's throat. It will come back up on you.

gypski®

I'm going to say it one more time for you. I believe cannabis should be legal for all to use and I don't believe it contributes dangerously to the public even driving after smoking. Cell phone use is far, far worse. So I hope you have that straight now.

Freedom is not creating another offense when there is already a law in effect and the law is not based on provable scientific evidence. Just free the plant and quit lying to yourself that you can trust the government that has proven it cannot be trusted to make the right choices for its citizens.

Greenlv828

'jontomas' wants to Vilify anyone who dares to have an opinion differing from his supposed moral high-ground. If anyone is getting paid off it's this 'jontomas' State mouthpiece! The Cops are the ones promoting 502 and the State, who want total control. 502 is horrible Orwellian law designed to create revenue for the State via DUI and a new State run pot program to replace the Booze that just got voted away from them, and of course to pay-off professional 'Reformers' like 'jontomas'. War is not piece. Two plus two is four. 502 is not 'Legalization', it is Bad Law and Will Not Pass.

Greenlv828

Ooh, 'jontomas' you are so morally perfect, gee I thought Jesus was there for a second. Self-righteous asshole, what a joke! Of course I sold dime bags when I was a kid, in the eighties. Am I a gangster now? Huh, responsible for the world drug war cause I buy weed grown in Washington?No home growing is not 'Legalization', only an asshole or a politician would call it so. Insane DUI's laws will increased tyranny, asshole. We, in Washington State, just voted government out of our liquor, think we want them in our grass, asshole? Go fuck yourself and your pathetic 'year's salary' political 'Reformer'. 502 is Bad Law and Will Not Pass

jontomas

I tell you what. I'll wager a year's salary I've never made a penny off marijuana - in any way, shape or form. Will you do the same? If so, let's set it up.

When every adult in Washington can legally carry an ounce of marijuana with them wherever they go, YES, that indeed, is legalization. Your protestations to the contrary do nothing but reveal your pecuniary interests, and blatant disregard for the persecution of the many millions of U.S. marijuana consumers.